AOPA the way forward, A Woomera perspective
Well this discussion has progressed somewhat since I last checked it out. Certainly it is good to have this forum available for some OPEN discussion on the future of AOPA….Thanks to the PP team.
At a guess I would say that axiom is VERY close to the action, or at least to someone that is. His post regarding the resignation of President Pike on Sunday evening was almost in real time and quite interesting considering that many that were advised in the first instance were told that it was to remain confidential? It also seems that axiom is a Hamilton supporter for reasons that are not obvious from his posts. If this is so, please let us know.
Where did this Bob Murphie come from? Where are his posts or motions? In fact what point of view does he have?
Certainly the concept of having a full time paid President is a good one, but even back in the days pre Smith & Munro with over double the members AOPA has now they could not afford that. Certainly a paid CEO is the way to go and with Tony Wilkinson and Bart Beech the Association certainly had that role filled, both of whom did the job.
But then if the management makes decisions or maybe no decisions and the income goes down, how do you keep such people employed.
AOPA is clearly at the turning point and it is very clear that Hamilton is past his use by date and as said above we need a fresh new committee to drive the association forward.
At a guess I would say that axiom is VERY close to the action, or at least to someone that is. His post regarding the resignation of President Pike on Sunday evening was almost in real time and quite interesting considering that many that were advised in the first instance were told that it was to remain confidential? It also seems that axiom is a Hamilton supporter for reasons that are not obvious from his posts. If this is so, please let us know.
Where did this Bob Murphie come from? Where are his posts or motions? In fact what point of view does he have?
Certainly the concept of having a full time paid President is a good one, but even back in the days pre Smith & Munro with over double the members AOPA has now they could not afford that. Certainly a paid CEO is the way to go and with Tony Wilkinson and Bart Beech the Association certainly had that role filled, both of whom did the job.
But then if the management makes decisions or maybe no decisions and the income goes down, how do you keep such people employed.
AOPA is clearly at the turning point and it is very clear that Hamilton is past his use by date and as said above we need a fresh new committee to drive the association forward.
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Sayonra Bill
It really is time for Hamilton to move on and allow a fresh team to manage AOPA.
The only contribution Bill seemed to make was the 10% annual reduction in membership during his presidency.
Yes, he has put in an incredible amount of his own time and effort (bordering on obsessive) but in my opnion there has been a damaging downside to his involvement. Successful outcomes is surely the only measure that matters.
And what contribution have you made Axiom that puts you in a privileged position to commentate on AOPA doings?
Membership is AOPA's life-blood. We are now down to 4,400 and I can only see this continuing downwards unless the membership takes control of the Assocation. It is not too late, AOPA is fixable.
Russell
The only contribution Bill seemed to make was the 10% annual reduction in membership during his presidency.
Yes, he has put in an incredible amount of his own time and effort (bordering on obsessive) but in my opnion there has been a damaging downside to his involvement. Successful outcomes is surely the only measure that matters.
And what contribution have you made Axiom that puts you in a privileged position to commentate on AOPA doings?
Membership is AOPA's life-blood. We are now down to 4,400 and I can only see this continuing downwards unless the membership takes control of the Assocation. It is not too late, AOPA is fixable.
Russell
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Ax
What have I done???
A lot more off the Board than on it. But that is because, in my view, Bill Hamilton thinks he, and he alone, represents AOPA. (but probably not REX
).
Like (together with Boyd Munro) got rid of the nasty Part 47 that threatened to hand all our CofRs to LAMEs. That really p!ssed CASA off and has them treading carefully to this day.
And we did that DESPITE Hamilton who I figured had made a 'deal' with CASA.
Seems your side is closer to CASA than mine
What have you done Axiom. Ever nominated for the Board, or anything???? Nup, nuffin hey
Oh Cog, Bob Murphie is real and an OK guy. Just hasn't seen the problem as close as Russell or I (or the other Board members who have just resigned).
When the buffalo fight, small animals get trampled.
What have I done???
A lot more off the Board than on it. But that is because, in my view, Bill Hamilton thinks he, and he alone, represents AOPA. (but probably not REX
).Like (together with Boyd Munro) got rid of the nasty Part 47 that threatened to hand all our CofRs to LAMEs. That really p!ssed CASA off and has them treading carefully to this day.
And we did that DESPITE Hamilton who I figured had made a 'deal' with CASA.
Seems your side is closer to CASA than mine
What have you done Axiom. Ever nominated for the Board, or anything???? Nup, nuffin hey
Oh Cog, Bob Murphie is real and an OK guy. Just hasn't seen the problem as close as Russell or I (or the other Board members who have just resigned).
When the buffalo fight, small animals get trampled.
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Got to admit it snarek, we both agree on Bob Murphie. Happens to be a good friend and has had positive results as part of the silent majority who think that every rule made in Canberra is not necessarily a good rule. AOPA have helped him over a 6 odd year battle with CASA and he simply wanted to put something back from what he took out in time and effort by the likes of Hamilton and Dawson.
He is a member of AOPA and has it's interests at heart. He has nominated for the board.
axiom is priveleged to have good and loyal friends who keep him abreast of events such as the edict that Marjoirie put out about confidentiality (one may ask where you got this info cogwheel).
Bob murphie was advised by Bill Pike of his resignation and begged him to reconsider, 24 hours later at his behest, axiom put the matter to pprune. No real time here. the contact was over his attempt to put forth a motion to bring about State Chapters with de facto control of AOPA to keep the rot and sh!tfights to the back room.
The ego that runs the place now would have no part of any scheme that would erode the power base so evident and mostly wrongly illustrated by the Hamilton antagonists.
It may help you to think that the concept had a fairly good hearing and assessment by Hamilton etc and given a phased in (over 12 months), ammendment to the motion it was accepted that something like this would have to be done.
Bob Murphie was prepared to give 12 months of his time to bring about this implementation, with AOPA's option of accepting or rejecting the concept 12 months hence.
Marjorie has brought to the forefront the fact that a modification of the articles of association is not necessary and such a scheme can be implemented through the existing structure. Her attempts to silence him being the catalist to explore, analyse and act.
This is the basis of his nomination which many support and will probably be accepted by the members as has been done by better than 50% of the Board including hamilton.
How is this bad for AOPA ?
in all sincerity, and given the fact that Hamilton can sometimes be abrasive, why would you want to get rid of someone who has put so much foreward for the good of GA in Australia ?
Reign him in, hobble him, give him a desk job, but we need him and his expertise more than we need the constant attacks that are simply not condusive to good PR.
And, believe me, CASA are p!ssing themselves right now with excitement.
give me a numerical accomplishment data sheet with all the relevant inputs that are positive to GA and let us all compare or probably better still, wait for the May elections.
Two more things;
1) There are 7 now on the board, read article 33 of the articles of association and you may get a notion as to why nobody else can stand down. Or is this what you want? a couple of secondees to fill the void of the incumbents choice/ Struth, not on guy's. I think you will get your way, but not how you expected it.
2) For those with the inside confidential information, how did Marjories Special Resolutions stand up to a Board vote and since when did anybody think that something as stupidly legal would pass muster with the rank and file.
A question, that I'm sure someone will answer, If I have a Tiger Moth and want to operate it in the charter catagory, is this now a class A (1) matter requiring an on board cabin attendant, co-pilot, etc etc or is what we have now the same as the original part 47 that perhaps every sensible member saw was going to be foistered upon us anyway ?
axiom is also a member and he will sit where he is, thank you very much, to give input and opposition to blantant hate mail tactics that we see today. Should I continue Andrew ?
He is a member of AOPA and has it's interests at heart. He has nominated for the board.
axiom is priveleged to have good and loyal friends who keep him abreast of events such as the edict that Marjoirie put out about confidentiality (one may ask where you got this info cogwheel).
Bob murphie was advised by Bill Pike of his resignation and begged him to reconsider, 24 hours later at his behest, axiom put the matter to pprune. No real time here. the contact was over his attempt to put forth a motion to bring about State Chapters with de facto control of AOPA to keep the rot and sh!tfights to the back room.
The ego that runs the place now would have no part of any scheme that would erode the power base so evident and mostly wrongly illustrated by the Hamilton antagonists.
It may help you to think that the concept had a fairly good hearing and assessment by Hamilton etc and given a phased in (over 12 months), ammendment to the motion it was accepted that something like this would have to be done.
Bob Murphie was prepared to give 12 months of his time to bring about this implementation, with AOPA's option of accepting or rejecting the concept 12 months hence.
Marjorie has brought to the forefront the fact that a modification of the articles of association is not necessary and such a scheme can be implemented through the existing structure. Her attempts to silence him being the catalist to explore, analyse and act.
This is the basis of his nomination which many support and will probably be accepted by the members as has been done by better than 50% of the Board including hamilton.
How is this bad for AOPA ?
in all sincerity, and given the fact that Hamilton can sometimes be abrasive, why would you want to get rid of someone who has put so much foreward for the good of GA in Australia ?
Reign him in, hobble him, give him a desk job, but we need him and his expertise more than we need the constant attacks that are simply not condusive to good PR.
And, believe me, CASA are p!ssing themselves right now with excitement.
give me a numerical accomplishment data sheet with all the relevant inputs that are positive to GA and let us all compare or probably better still, wait for the May elections.
Two more things;
1) There are 7 now on the board, read article 33 of the articles of association and you may get a notion as to why nobody else can stand down. Or is this what you want? a couple of secondees to fill the void of the incumbents choice/ Struth, not on guy's. I think you will get your way, but not how you expected it.
2) For those with the inside confidential information, how did Marjories Special Resolutions stand up to a Board vote and since when did anybody think that something as stupidly legal would pass muster with the rank and file.
A question, that I'm sure someone will answer, If I have a Tiger Moth and want to operate it in the charter catagory, is this now a class A (1) matter requiring an on board cabin attendant, co-pilot, etc etc or is what we have now the same as the original part 47 that perhaps every sensible member saw was going to be foistered upon us anyway ?
axiom is also a member and he will sit where he is, thank you very much, to give input and opposition to blantant hate mail tactics that we see today. Should I continue Andrew ?
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Well I have nominated today, and I have just finished polishing my profile but it's 1:30am WST.
so I'm off to bed.
Just thought I'd let you all know.
I have a fittiing for new body armour organised for tomorrow and have ordered up a new chair and lion tamers whip and several gallons of oil scented with rare and exotic herbs to pour upon the waters.
I just hope we can all get on with some Peace and Harmony and deal with the REAL business of AOPA.
Talk to you soon.
so I'm off to bed.Just thought I'd let you all know.
I have a fittiing for new body armour organised for tomorrow and have ordered up a new chair and lion tamers whip and several gallons of oil scented with rare and exotic herbs to pour upon the waters.
I just hope we can all get on with some Peace and Harmony and deal with the REAL business of AOPA.
Talk to you soon.
Word is that the interim President until the AGM is McKeown.
I don't know if he is the salvation of AOPA ? He has no runs on the board and has never faced the voters.
Also seems that Mitchell has re-entered the arena trying to drum up support for Hamilton.
I don't believe any of these people have what it takes. Yes we really need to see some new faces and not Hamilton stooges either or it will really go down the drain.
Let us pray!
I don't know if he is the salvation of AOPA ? He has no runs on the board and has never faced the voters.
Also seems that Mitchell has re-entered the arena trying to drum up support for Hamilton.
I don't believe any of these people have what it takes. Yes we really need to see some new faces and not Hamilton stooges either or it will really go down the drain.
Let us pray!
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At last, a glimmer of sun between the Towering Cu.
There will be an election for the AOPA Board.
The following people have nominated and I know they all are committed to working together inside AOPA and with like minded bodies such as the Aero Clubs, AUF, GFA, PFA Air Safety, the Minister and those in CASA with 'the right attitude' (the others BEWARE!!!).
Please support the following candidates for the AOPA Board.
Marjorie Pagani (Townsville)
Trish Mahlberg (area rep Mackay)
Adrienne Williams (area rep Adelaide)
Ron Lawford (Darwin)
Gary Gaunt (Gaunty ... Perth)
David McDonald (area rep Brisbane)
Ron Bertram (Bankstown)
Mick Kennedy (St George)
Bill Pike (the Hunter)
Jane Errey (Murrumbateman), oh yeah, and me if you feel inclined
Andrew Kerans
A pretty representative team from all areas and sectors of GA, some with Board experience, all with a deep commitment to working together and to listening to members and non-members views alike.
help us rebuild AOPA!!!!
AK
The following people have nominated and I know they all are committed to working together inside AOPA and with like minded bodies such as the Aero Clubs, AUF, GFA, PFA Air Safety, the Minister and those in CASA with 'the right attitude' (the others BEWARE!!!).
Please support the following candidates for the AOPA Board.
Marjorie Pagani (Townsville)
Trish Mahlberg (area rep Mackay)
Adrienne Williams (area rep Adelaide)
Ron Lawford (Darwin)
Gary Gaunt (Gaunty ... Perth)
David McDonald (area rep Brisbane)
Ron Bertram (Bankstown)
Mick Kennedy (St George)
Bill Pike (the Hunter)
Jane Errey (Murrumbateman), oh yeah, and me if you feel inclined
Andrew Kerans
A pretty representative team from all areas and sectors of GA, some with Board experience, all with a deep commitment to working together and to listening to members and non-members views alike.
help us rebuild AOPA!!!!
AK
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These nominations are beyond the scope of a rumour network.
From information gleaned here, Gaunt, Kerans and Murphie have nominated.
A quick call to Elections Australia (who are running the show), reveals a degree of alarm that information such as this has been given out and, only when assured it came from a rumour network, was this alarm pacified.
Perhaps someone should explain. I was accused the other day of posting in real time regarding Pike's resignation, but considering pprune has been down for 3 days and Kerans post is 0012 GMT today, where did this information come from?
Where did cogwheel find about Mckeown?
And I note there has been no follow up as to Pike's resignation. I know Hamilton got the blame, but even Pike didn't give me his reasons.
This is a case of start a rumour, if nobody responds, it must be fact.
snareks post is simply inaccurate.
Or is factual as far as leaks go, but omitted one person in particular who is assuired by Elections Aust that his nomination is in, but apparantly not passed on by the AOPA office and not given to snarek, or purposely omitted by snarek, or thrown in the rubbish bin by someone.
Which one is it Andrew?
Good thing he sent a copy to EA isn't it !
You blokes could stuff this election before it even gets started.
From information gleaned here, Gaunt, Kerans and Murphie have nominated.
A quick call to Elections Australia (who are running the show), reveals a degree of alarm that information such as this has been given out and, only when assured it came from a rumour network, was this alarm pacified.
Perhaps someone should explain. I was accused the other day of posting in real time regarding Pike's resignation, but considering pprune has been down for 3 days and Kerans post is 0012 GMT today, where did this information come from?
Where did cogwheel find about Mckeown?
And I note there has been no follow up as to Pike's resignation. I know Hamilton got the blame, but even Pike didn't give me his reasons.
This is a case of start a rumour, if nobody responds, it must be fact.
snareks post is simply inaccurate.
Or is factual as far as leaks go, but omitted one person in particular who is assuired by Elections Aust that his nomination is in, but apparantly not passed on by the AOPA office and not given to snarek, or purposely omitted by snarek, or thrown in the rubbish bin by someone.
Which one is it Andrew?
Good thing he sent a copy to EA isn't it !
You blokes could stuff this election before it even gets started.
Today's Australian aviation section features an article about Pikes resignation from the board. In the article he blames the Minister and CASA for deciding to give it away. I think it is more likely that it was the internal board politics and his weak stand against those that would not conform was really the reason.
Nevertheless, by blaming the Minister, Pike has now totally alienated AOPA from the main stream decision making process.
Unless the new board can overcome this, the future ability of AOPA to solve the problems of the day is very remote. Another reason to have a spill. I doubt if McKeown has the ability to do it and Hamilton certainly does not. Hopefully some of new names will get up and help regain the respectability the association once had. If not, then there is a good chance of an EGM in the not too distant future.
axiom The info is there, you just have to have the right contacts and keep your ear to the ground whilst watching for the smoke signals
Nevertheless, by blaming the Minister, Pike has now totally alienated AOPA from the main stream decision making process.
Unless the new board can overcome this, the future ability of AOPA to solve the problems of the day is very remote. Another reason to have a spill. I doubt if McKeown has the ability to do it and Hamilton certainly does not. Hopefully some of new names will get up and help regain the respectability the association once had. If not, then there is a good chance of an EGM in the not too distant future.
axiom The info is there, you just have to have the right contacts and keep your ear to the ground whilst watching for the smoke signals
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I dont know what is going on, but I have had a report that a member was hacker attacked when he logged on to THIS thread so as a precaution, I am closing it for the moment whilst Admin check it out.
