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3 lost west of Brisbane Monday 29-8-22

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3 lost west of Brisbane Monday 29-8-22

Old 3rd Sep 2022, 12:27
  #121 (permalink)  
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Re flying under power lines; years ago I did a stint of 'bird chasing.' No,you lot, It isn't what you think!.

It was chasing Crows out of Almond Orchards and to carry out this Operation required a Low Level Endorsement, which from memory consisted of at least 15 hours dual and about the same amount ICUS, all flown about 15 feet above tree top!

One of the things the Checking Instructor made me learn, was how to fly under power lines. I clearly remember doing it twice with the Checkie on board and then being required to go out and do it solo.

Learning this technique has benefited me more than once.

But returning to the subject ;
, Duck Pilot's original observations could be expressed as "You have no business being IMC below LSALT unless on a published Instrument Approach,'' and that says it all really.

Any further comment is irrelevent.
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 02:40
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot View Post
Re flying under power lines; years ago I did a stint of 'bird chasing.' No,you lot, It isn't what you think!.
It was chasing Crows out of Almond Orchards and to carry out this Operation required a Low Level Endorsement, which from memory consisted of at least 15 hours dual and about the same amount ICUS, all flown about 15 feet above tree top!
One of the things the Checking Instructor made me learn, was how to fly under power lines. I clearly remember doing it twice with the Checkie on board and then being required to go out and do it solo.
Learning this technique has benefited me more than once.
But returning to the subject ;
, Duck Pilot's original observations could be expressed as "You have no business being IMC below LSALT unless on a published Instrument Approach,'' and that says it all really.
Any further comment is irrelevent.
If only it were that simple!
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 02:49
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know what to say if someone with 40+ years of experience decides to fly below clouds in IMC.

Could this be related to difficulties and hurdles when obtaining and maintaining instrument rating in Oz ?

​​​​​​Instead of discouraging pilots to obtain IR, maybe try the opposite.

​​​​
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Old 4th Sep 2022, 03:18
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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This has been out a while - watch from the the 2:30 on ..........

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Old 4th Sep 2022, 05:24
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Bloody hell, that's disturbing.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 02:25
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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As are some of the comments about how modern avionics can get you out of trouble if you choose to scud run instead of planning properly to avoid being in that situation. To push on into weather that is not VMC is a command decision. The consequences are all your own.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 07:34
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Helicopter ten commandments I've just received. Item 8 applies to our fraternity as it does your FW, and a few others also. I'd have to say scud running is the major cause of helo accidents.

1. Keep always thine RPMs, for without them the gates of heaven shall close to thee, and though shalt pass directly to Brick City.
2. Guard thy tail rotor as thy loins; it is a sacred thing and its loss maketh the earth spin, and rise up and smite thee.
3. Pickest thou up and sittest thou down with great care lest thy machine roll in the mud like the swine and makest thou an impoverished pedestrian.
4. Loadeth not thy machine unevenly or excessively, lest thou wander and stumble like the braying ass.
5. Run not thy fuel or oil dry, for surely it is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a fool to autorotate into the wilderness.
6. Linger not in the curve of the deadman, for it tempteth fate, and shall bring thee back pain.
7. Swoop not low without good reason, for many are the snares of Edison and Bell; their wires yieldeth not, and maketh thee a yo-yo.
8. Loseth not sight of the earth if thou are not a master of the black art of “hard IFR”, else thy machine shall seek the earth without thy counsel, and thy friends shall mourn the passing of a fool.
9. Loseth not thy Gs for the sake of a pushover or other folly, lest thy blades shall smite thee, and journey on without thee.
10. Descendeth not without airspeed, for the air beneath thee is wrathful, and wouldst conspire with the granite to swallow thee up, far from the seeing eye of SAR.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 14:30
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
I've flown under power lines before, intentionally,
Some years ago the Jab I regularly fly hit a powerline, on short final (where else?). Apparently a wheel snagged a wire, and pulled the wire off one pole, and bent the other. The jab came to a sudden stop a bit like a carrier landing, with the lucky pilot shaken but largely OK. The jab was patched up and flies fine. As for me, I'm well aware of that power line and keep my distance.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 14:32
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Helicopter ten commandments I've just received. Item 8 applies to our fraternity as it does your FW, and a few others also. I'd have to say scud running is the major cause of helo accidents.

1. Keep always thine RPMs, for without them the gates of heaven shall close to thee, and though shalt pass directly to Brick City.
2. Guard thy tail rotor as thy loins; it is a sacred thing and its loss maketh the earth spin, and rise up and smite thee.
3. Pickest thou up and sittest thou down with great care lest thy machine roll in the mud like the swine and makest thou an impoverished pedestrian.
4. Loadeth not thy machine unevenly or excessively, lest thou wander and stumble like the braying ass.
5. Run not thy fuel or oil dry, for surely it is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a fool to autorotate into the wilderness.
6. Linger not in the curve of the deadman, for it tempteth fate, and shall bring thee back pain.
7. Swoop not low without good reason, for many are the snares of Edison and Bell; their wires yieldeth not, and maketh thee a yo-yo.
8. Loseth not sight of the earth if thou are not a master of the black art of “hard IFR”, else thy machine shall seek the earth without thy counsel, and thy friends shall mourn the passing of a fool.
9. Loseth not thy Gs for the sake of a pushover or other folly, lest thy blades shall smite thee, and journey on without thee.
10. Descendeth not without airspeed, for the air beneath thee is wrathful, and wouldst conspire with the granite to swallow thee up, far from the seeing eye of SAR.
Love those rules, and yes many also apply to FW.
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Old 5th Sep 2022, 21:35
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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I still can’t get my head around the idea that a guy with 40 plus years of experience doesn’t have the self confidence to just say “sorry, we can’t get through. We’re turning around and landing at ZZZ have a chicken parmi at the pub and try again tomorrow morning”.
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 00:13
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Lucille:
still can’t get my head around the idea that a guy with 40 plus years of experience doesn’t have the self confidence to just say “sorry, we can’t get through. We’re turning around and landing at ZZZ have a chicken parmi at the pub and try again tomorrow morning”.

”It looks a little dark up ahead but the area forecast is fine.”

‘’’The cloud ceiling is dropping a little but it’s dead flat up ahead once I’m out of this valley”.

”There is plenty of room to deviate around that whisp of cloud in front. I can still maintain VMC”.

”The cloud is on top of the hills but I can still see the ground on track ahead of me. I’m still 100 percent safe, this isn’t scud running”.

”If I manouver around this cloud, I will remain VMC and I should have open skies ahead once again”.

”There is sunlight the other side of this cloud in front, that means I’m almost out of this stuff if I can get around it in VMC.”

Or so I thought. I’m one of the lucky ones. I will never take that seductive, lethal, invitation again.
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 00:33
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
I still can’t get my head around the idea that a guy with 40 plus years of experience doesn’t have the self confidence to just say “sorry, we can’t get through. We’re turning around and landing at ZZZ have a chicken parmi at the pub and try again tomorrow morning”.

I wasn’t aware that we had the ATSB report determining what happened ?








.

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Old 6th Sep 2022, 03:25
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by havick View Post
Even experienced pilots can make dumbass decisions too.
You only have to make one. All those times you made the right decision? They don't count.
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 04:25
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
I wasn’t aware that we had the ATSB report determining what happened ?
.
We know WHAT happened - its the HOW and WHY that remain to be determined!
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 04:30
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ForkTailedDrKiller View Post
We know WHAT happened - its the HOW and WHY that remain to be determined!
?

…The language police have arrived..


I’d better not go putting me comma’’s in the wrong place then.





​​​​​​…..…

Last edited by Flying Binghi; 6th Sep 2022 at 04:47.
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 04:38
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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The famous Papua New Guinea scud runner Missionary Bush Pilot interviews fellow youtuber Mike Patey. Of interest is Patey’s comments and reasoning about his multiple video screens in the Scrappy aircraft. Starts about 6.5 minutes in:

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Old 6th Sep 2022, 04:43
  #137 (permalink)  
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How timely, just in and fresh to YouTube.

This guy had an engine failure with steam gauges and landed on the beach using his Stratux 3 with AHRS on an iPad through 1,000ft of cloud with 350 hours total time.

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Old 6th Sep 2022, 05:10
  #138 (permalink)  
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You only have to make one. All those times you made the right decision? They don't count.

Now that sounds to be a good little moral to a story ?
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 05:36
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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And my personal favourite, "Nine times out of ten you will get away with it."
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Old 6th Sep 2022, 09:28
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
I still can’t get my head around the idea that a guy with 40 plus years of experience doesn’t have the self confidence to just say “sorry, we can’t get through. We’re turning around and landing at ZZZ have a chicken parmi at the pub and try again tomorrow morning”.
Interesting as well that 80% of VFR into IMC accidents are pilots over 40 years old. This pilot fits into that grouping. I think that shows a confidence issue, or more so an overconfidence issue, probably along the lines of 'I'm sure I know what I'm doing'. Still it is concerning that older pilots seem to be more likely to do this. As somebody mentioned earlier we know he's a highly experienced helicopter pilot, but how much fixed wing time did he have.
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