Gold Coast International Airport CTAF
Well it's either leave the country or drip feed some uncaring insurance company for the rest of your life. I assume you are not Skase or Bond who have vast offshore assets that can support that life overseas either. Or you can declare bankruptcy and lose everything you own anyway and not be able to get a loan or own/run a business for several years. Some chose to leave to avoid facing the courts over it, it has happened to a couple of pilots I know that have been involved in accidents, some quite notable.
With regard to the War Liability, that is the only part that I find is an issue, however it does cover if your craft is seized illegally and used to damage somebody elses property for some cause, which is not really a concern in Australia. It is what it is, but I agree is going to be hard to justify, until it happens. Legalities of who is paying for damages when something is stolen or seized to be used is complicated, especially when lots of money is involved, those who lost money, want it back, those that did it are dead, leaving the owner of the utensils involved.
With regard to the War Liability, that is the only part that I find is an issue, however it does cover if your craft is seized illegally and used to damage somebody elses property for some cause, which is not really a concern in Australia. It is what it is, but I agree is going to be hard to justify, until it happens. Legalities of who is paying for damages when something is stolen or seized to be used is complicated, especially when lots of money is involved, those who lost money, want it back, those that did it are dead, leaving the owner of the utensils involved.
Last edited by 43Inches; 17th Jul 2022 at 04:31.
So those pilots you know: presumably they had the assets of a Skase or Bond overseas to support their lifestyle, and never plan to come back?
You keep missing the bit about the required insurance cover for the QAL airports being unobtainable.
You keep missing the bit about the required insurance cover for the QAL airports being unobtainable.
Only the war insurance is generally something that is not insured, liability for $25mil US is obtainable for anything, given a price. I suggest you speak to QBE or such and find out what it costs, airlines carry it, so I'm sure it would exist, I've never had to carry that personally so no idea, but liability insurance just depends on what the risk is, if its low the price is very low, as with travel insurance. Start saying you're a smoking 70 year old with a heart condition and travel will need to be self insured. Liability needs are such a low risk for the average punter than its really not that expensive, hence why it's tacked onto house insurance for virtually nothing.
It’s not just the amount (and, BTW, it US 35, not 25, million). You evidently haven’t read QAL’s requirements.
You’re the expert: Give QBE a call and ask them for a quote for cover that satisfies QAL’s requirements. Educate us all as to the answer. All I’ve been able illicit from brokers is side-splitting laughter.
You’re the expert: Give QBE a call and ask them for a quote for cover that satisfies QAL’s requirements. Educate us all as to the answer. All I’ve been able illicit from brokers is side-splitting laughter.
Yes, it’s all set out in QAL’s terms of use for their airports. The leaflet is toilet paper.
In any event, surely the amount of cover you have is determined by your risk assessment, not QAL’s. You could incinerate an entire passenger terminal full of people.
In any event, surely the amount of cover you have is determined by your risk assessment, not QAL’s. You could incinerate an entire passenger terminal full of people.
Reality is they make very little money from GA and would rather they not have to cater for it, but they can make it unviable for GA to afford it. Landing fees can be argued, where having appropriate insurance for the risk, with an army of corporate risk assessors behind them is hard to fight.
TBH most GA users would go to airstrips that the insurer would wince at should you claim damage from an excursion there, our fleet used to be insured for licensed aerodromes only, but we still flew to ALA's. I know of several situations many years ago that the insurers reluctantly agreed to only cover half of damages due to pilots going places they shouldn't be. One refused to cover a kangaroo hit because the aircraft did not do a low pass first to check for animals on the strip, even though another aircraft had landed 5 minutes prior. Pilot ended up out of pocket $25k or so.
TBH most GA users would go to airstrips that the insurer would wince at should you claim damage from an excursion there, our fleet used to be insured for licensed aerodromes only, but we still flew to ALA's. I know of several situations many years ago that the insurers reluctantly agreed to only cover half of damages due to pilots going places they shouldn't be. One refused to cover a kangaroo hit because the aircraft did not do a low pass first to check for animals on the strip, even though another aircraft had landed 5 minutes prior. Pilot ended up out of pocket $25k or so.
Let's assume the worst. You lob in to Cooly when it's a CTAF, in your 700Kg, uninsured RV-7 and somehow manage to cause a brand new 787 to be written off. Cue an airline (or more specifically, their insurers) on the warpath to get their shiny big Boeing replaced, without costing them anything.
They'll naturally try to sue the poor RVator, but he's only got (had) his RV and a house, maybe a newish car if they're lucky. Afterall - if they had more $$, he wouldn't be in an RV, he'd be flogging about in a Cirrus... So, the absolute best they can get out of him is perhaps $1M AUD before he declares bankruptcy - and that's if he doesn't try to mortgage his house & sell his car to fund the defence of the lawsuit and then the insurer is going to get into a fight with the bank over who gets the house.
"Leave the country" stuff? Drip-feed a blood-sucking insurance company for the rest of your life? Nope. That ain't gonna happen (Click HERE if you don't believe me, look at the "Court-ordered restitution amounts"). They'll (probably) sue the owner, force them to cough up whatever they can, they'll in turn declare bankruptcy and the insurer will pay out on the Boeing and maybe claim on their re-insurance policies...Realistically though, if all you have is a house and car, they probably wouldn't even bother as their lawyers would cost more than they'd get from you selling your house anyway.
They'll naturally try to sue the poor RVator, but he's only got (had) his RV and a house, maybe a newish car if they're lucky. Afterall - if they had more $$, he wouldn't be in an RV, he'd be flogging about in a Cirrus... So, the absolute best they can get out of him is perhaps $1M AUD before he declares bankruptcy - and that's if he doesn't try to mortgage his house & sell his car to fund the defence of the lawsuit and then the insurer is going to get into a fight with the bank over who gets the house.
"Leave the country" stuff? Drip-feed a blood-sucking insurance company for the rest of your life? Nope. That ain't gonna happen (Click HERE if you don't believe me, look at the "Court-ordered restitution amounts"). They'll (probably) sue the owner, force them to cough up whatever they can, they'll in turn declare bankruptcy and the insurer will pay out on the Boeing and maybe claim on their re-insurance policies...Realistically though, if all you have is a house and car, they probably wouldn't even bother as their lawyers would cost more than they'd get from you selling your house anyway.
That case assumes only property damage, the other aspect is if somebody is injured, which is the case among the pilots I know that have had to leave Aus, and other countries. That's where civil cases get ugly and multiple claimants, just damaging a Boeing would be straight forward. Also declaring bankruptcy is not something you want to do lightly, it will effect everything you try to do afterwards financially based. And that's assuming you are not already financially well off, with family and independent, there's a lot to lose then.
So let us learn from you, 43”. How much public liability insurance cover do you have for everything you do?
Remember: You could stuff up while riding your push bike, swerve in front of a school bus which then plunges off a cliff when the driver fails to resist the reflex urge to avoid colliding with you. 40 kiddies in wheelchairs….
Remember: You could stuff up while riding your push bike, swerve in front of a school bus which then plunges off a cliff when the driver fails to resist the reflex urge to avoid colliding with you. 40 kiddies in wheelchairs….
Car insurance is $20mil, house is $20 mil, that seems about the average. Company was on demand for the event or scenario. Last time I insured an aircraft I think it was about $5mil for basic.
But none for your push bike stuff up? You must have Bond/Skase levels of assets ready for your escape overseas.
So let us learn from you, 43”. How much public liability insurance cover do you have for everything you do?
Remember: You could stuff up while riding your push bike, swerve in front of a school bus which then plunges off a cliff when the driver fails to resist the reflex urge to avoid colliding with you. 40 kiddies in wheelchairs….
Remember: You could stuff up while riding your push bike, swerve in front of a school bus which then plunges off a cliff when the driver fails to resist the reflex urge to avoid colliding with you. 40 kiddies in wheelchairs….
In the instance of swerving, you can have all the dash cam footage you want of the incident, but if the other object does not make contact and you crash it will be deemed your fault.
I knew it would be the cyclists fault some how!
That case assumes only property damage, the other aspect is if somebody is injured, which is the case among the pilots I know that have had to leave Aus, and other countries. That's where civil cases get ugly and multiple claimants, just damaging a Boeing would be straight forward. Also declaring bankruptcy is not something you want to do lightly, it will effect everything you try to do afterwards financially based. And that's assuming you are not already financially well off, with family and independent, there's a lot to lose then.
Assuming you are fortunate enough to own your own home outright, and there is a lawsuit brought against you and you choose not to defend it or not re-mortgage your house to defend it or and the judgement goes against you (naturally it will if you don't defend yourself!) the absolute worst that can happen is your and your missus' "Joint Tenancy" will become "Tenants in Common", and the plaintiff will seek to recover the 50% of your home's value by giving your missus the chance to buy it, or if that fails, the property will usually be sold, with 50% of the proceeds then being given to your missus. The insurance company won't get the full value of the house just because one of you declares bankruptcy, nor can they try to go after your families assets or assets not in your name (or joint names) to try to recoup some of their costs. That's not how it works.
You will still be bankrupt, but you won't always lose your house, and at the expiration of the bankruptcy period (3 years now - I thought it used to be 7) you can start to pick up the pieces. Hell, you can even hold down a job during your bankruptcy and so long as you don't earn above a certain amount, you won't have to chip in any $$ to the bankruptcy trustee so you can pay back your wife for having to buy out your share of the family home!
They can't go after your family home, however if you have built up significant wealth including assets like boats and airplanes you will lose the lot. I'm not scaremongering at all, going uninsured with things like aviation can bite your ass very badly when it goes wrong. This is one downside to 'ride-share' type operations in that charter ops are covered by carriers liability act, which prevents a charter company from being sued in excess of x amount per passenger. Private or airwork ops you are not covered by said laws and therefore open to full compensation payouts to injured passengers and such. It's very important you know what you are covered for as I've already stated I know a number of pilots that have been bitten hard. If you want to rebuild your life from the bottom up again, go for it, declare bankruptcy, or just make sure you are covered for the reasonable eventualities. Personally I would operate into Cooly with what insurance I have, knowing that the likelyhood of causing $35mil USD of damage or starting a war a far off possibility. But going in uninsured is just silly as enough damage to ruin my lifestyle is definitely a possibility. The question is can they stop you from operating there, unless there is some PPR notice given I doubt it.
What a vindictive company can do if you wont pay up though is put a lien on your house so you can never sell it unless you cough up x dollars. But you would have to piss somebody off to get to that point, I know of several aircraft that have rotted away and scrapped because of such behavior. Intention is to basically ruin any chance you have to scarper with anything of value until you pay your debts.
What a vindictive company can do if you wont pay up though is put a lien on your house so you can never sell it unless you cough up x dollars. But you would have to piss somebody off to get to that point, I know of several aircraft that have rotted away and scrapped because of such behavior. Intention is to basically ruin any chance you have to scarper with anything of value until you pay your debts.
Last edited by 43Inches; 17th Jul 2022 at 10:38.
[C]harter ops are covered by carriers liability act, which prevents a charter company from being sued in excess of x amount per passenger.
An air carrier may be sued in any amount by a passenger. It’s just that if the passenger claims damages beyond the statutory limit, the air carrier will not be liable if it proves:
(a) the damage is not due to the negligence or other wrongful act or omission of the carrier or its servants or agents; or
(b) the damage was solely due to the negligence or other wrongful act or omission of a third party.
To put that another way, if the charter company’s negligence caused the passenger’s death or injuries, there is no cap on the company’s consequential liability.
You can google it. Try “Article 21 of the Montreal Convention”.
That's the same for any insurance, you won't be covered for negligent or illegal acts. Basically if you do something outside the box of your own volition that's not acceptable in anything insurance becomes iffy. If you were doing the right thing, but made a mistake that led to the outcome then you can be reasonably covered. Negligence being "A failure to behave with the level of care that someone of ordinary prudence would have exercised under the same circumstances." So as long as you were following the rules, ops manual and good technique, but something happened where you had a fade moment you would be covered. Insurance covers mistakes, not negligent or illegal behavior.
Neglect in a car could be knowing your brakes and tyres are worn past safe use in the wet, but driving in the wet anyway then causing an accident because you could not stop in the acceptable distance or skid into oncoming traffic. You are then at fault and negligent, and insurance could opt out as you failed in your duty to have a roadworthy vehicle and were aware of the deficiency. If your car was in good working order and by mistake you took the corner slightly too fast, but within acceptable limits, then you would be at fault but not negligent.
Neglect in a car could be knowing your brakes and tyres are worn past safe use in the wet, but driving in the wet anyway then causing an accident because you could not stop in the acceptable distance or skid into oncoming traffic. You are then at fault and negligent, and insurance could opt out as you failed in your duty to have a roadworthy vehicle and were aware of the deficiency. If your car was in good working order and by mistake you took the corner slightly too fast, but within acceptable limits, then you would be at fault but not negligent.
Last edited by 43Inches; 17th Jul 2022 at 11:19.
You crack me up, 43. A person’s liability due to negligence is precisely the kind of thing that the person’s insurance covers.
I do hope that the folks who read the stuff you post consume it with numerous hefty grains of salt.
I do hope that the folks who read the stuff you post consume it with numerous hefty grains of salt.