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Is a Genuine WW2 Nazi Painted Aircraft Now Illegal in Victoria

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Is a Genuine WW2 Nazi Painted Aircraft Now Illegal in Victoria

Old 11th May 2022, 08:37
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Is a Genuine WW2 Nazi Painted Aircraft Now Illegal in Victoria

Do historical artifacts of nazi Germany fall under the Anti-Swastika legislation in Victoria?

I can't find the Victorian legislation but did find the NSW version.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8gJ-SMXbIEYd_4

Does an exemption from this regulation need to be obtained to display genuine artifacts from WW2?

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Old 11th May 2022, 08:47
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My niece was working for a famous Australian lawyer in London. I asked her to give him a present in part thanks for some work he did for me. It was a simple article from WWII but it bore the flags of the tripartite alliance, which made it interesting as a historical artefact for me. I hope he did not feel he had to hide it away…
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Old 11th May 2022, 09:20
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Seems like any country that experienced significant Nazi influence or invasion has banned the display of Nazi symbology, hmm, I wonder why. Australia should have banned this tripe long ago, it has no place in our society except in history books or museums for what can happen when the wrong people get in control. Anyone that allows it, and worse willingly displays it without properly citing its historical significance condones it. The planes do not need the symbols of the political party to be displayed, the aircraft are a product of the German people not the political party, so the machine is acceptable the political symbols are not.
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Old 11th May 2022, 14:10
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Bf109

The aircraft did not of its own choice commit war crimes. Most Luftwaffe pilots were not Nazis. The aircraft is of historical significance, and that history must be told.

No point pretending it didn't happen. There may have been some captured aircraft re registered with RAF roundels, but.... that would confuse the casual observer.

Original Luftwaffe insignia (bar cross, not swastika) with clear history ok IMO.
(And I had great uncle and grandfather die in WW1)

Last edited by Seabreeze; 11th May 2022 at 14:23.
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Old 11th May 2022, 15:26
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I was talking to my friend Oey over Oom about Elensky's pet Ebra. But that's just silly.
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Old 11th May 2022, 16:52
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Originally Posted by Seabreeze View Post
The aircraft did not of its own choice commit war crimes. Most Luftwaffe pilots were not Nazis. The aircraft is of historical significance, and that history must be told.

No point pretending it didn't happen. There may have been some captured aircraft re registered with RAF roundels, but.... that would confuse the casual observer.

Original Luftwaffe insignia (bar cross, not swastika) with clear history ok IMO.
(And I had great uncle and grandfather die in WW1)
Good point, well made.

Jack
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Old 11th May 2022, 17:48
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No need to panic. There are exemptions for historical and suchlike depictions.
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Old 11th May 2022, 20:13
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Seems like any country that experienced significant Nazi influence or invasion has banned the display of Nazi symbology, hmm, I wonder why. Australia should have banned this tripe long ago, it has no place in our society except in history books or museums for what can happen when the wrong people get in control. Anyone that allows it, and worse willingly displays it without properly citing its historical significance condones it. The planes do not need the symbols of the political party to be displayed, the aircraft are a product of the German people not the political party, so the machine is acceptable the political symbols are not.
Would you feel better if we let you tear down some statues?
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Old 11th May 2022, 22:26
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Originally Posted by Peter Fanelli View Post
Would you feel better if we let you tear down some statues?
So I take it you want to build a statue of Adolf Hitler on your front lawn and fly a Swastika above it?

Shows a complete lack of historical study that you are confusing some debates over US civil war depictions vs Nazi Symbology. The reason why Nazi symbology is banned in many countries is that it was specifically designed and used to radicalise the population and inspire fear in opponents/targets. While slavery was bad, exterminating your civilian populations that don't fit in or making them so fearful as to leave their homelands was another level of evil. Displaying a Nazi Swastika or other symbols in a street is pretty much saying you are warning Jewish and foreigners to stay away, might not mean that to you, but it sure as hell means that to them. As said above the machine and some military markings such as Luftwaffe crosses are acceptable, Swastikas and SS unit markings are not. Please don't get into a debate over the historical meaning of the swastika pre Nazi Germany as the Nazi one is quite clearly what is being debated here.
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Old 11th May 2022, 22:32
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If the aircraft is a WW2 artifact, rebuild, replica, what’s the problem if it’s painted ..’as was’ in the war, with a swastika on the tail. That was the reality of the time and historically correct.
And it should remind people of what it meant, and that it shouldn’t be happening again.

The modern use by protesters with Nazi swastika flags and Hitler salutes shows that those people either don’t care or know about the vile history of Nazism.

History repeats. Seems like many Russians don’t mind Putinism either. Funny that, they weren’t too keen on Hilterism when the jackboots were on the other feet 80 years ago.
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Old 11th May 2022, 22:40
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Originally Posted by aroa View Post
If the aircraft is a WW2 artifact, rebuild, replica, what’s the problem if it’s painted ..’as was’ in the war, with a swastika on the tail. That was the reality of the time and historically correct.
And it should remind people of what it meant, and that it shouldn’t be happening again.

The modern use by protesters with Nazi swastika flags and Hitler salutes shows that those people either don’t care or know about the vile history of Nazism.

History repeats. Seems like many Russians don’t mind Putinism either. Funny that, they weren’t too keen on Hilterism when the jackboots were on the other feet 80 years ago.
The problem is that the Neo-Nazis are smart they use loopholes like that to glorify Hitler and the Nazi party, it's important that the imagery is carefully controlled for educational historical purposes. While it might seem without issue to the majority of us, some of the mentally ill out there that still worship the Reich will see any public display of the symbols as a sign the movement is still 'alive'. And there are more of them out there then we would like to admit in all societies. No one watching the aircraft would give two hoots about it not displaying the swastika, it's clearly German with the other marking and the show should outline it's history.

BTW the reason the law was introduced in Victoria is that a number of cases where a resident was flying a Nazi Swastika and other flags in their front yard, and nothing could be done by the other street residents at least one of which had links to the holocaust and was fearful of it's meaning. So in this case it was not just causing offence but some amounts of mental harm, but I assume some here would say to just move away from them....

Last edited by 43Inches; 11th May 2022 at 22:51.
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Old 11th May 2022, 22:49
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Get over it.The swastika symbol, 卐 or 卍, is an ancient religious symbol in various Eurasian cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis.[1] It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indic religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.[2][3][4][5][6] It generally takes the form of a cross, the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle.[7][8]

In the Western world, it was a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck until the 1930s[9] when the German Nazi Party adopted a right-facing ('clockwise') form and used it as an emblem of the Aryan race. As a result of World War II and the Holocaust, in the West it continues to be strongly associated with Nazism, antisemitism,[10][11] white supremacism,[12][13] or simply evil.[14][15] As a consequence, its use in some countries, including Germany, is prohibited by law.[A] However, the swastika remains a symbol of good luck and prosperity in Hindu, Buddhist and Jain countries such as Nepal, India, Mongolia, Sri Lanka, China and Japan. It is also commonly used in Hindu marriage ceremonies and Diwali celebrations.
Why not ban the catholic church because of the Inquisition?
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Old 11th May 2022, 23:01
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Why not ban the catholic church because of the Inquisition?
You are confusing something that happened in the middle ages at a time Normans would slaughter a village of peasants because their sisters cousin forgot to give them a birthday present.

The Nazi swastika is distinct in it's presentation, so has nothing to do with the other variants.
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Old 12th May 2022, 00:16
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Must be a lot of Victorian Model plane collectors and RC flyers that will be confused!
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Old 12th May 2022, 00:27
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I'm pretty sure the legislation is not designed to penalise the warbird folks, RC modellers, or the guy with the 1:35 Tiger tank on his shelf. It's to deter the d*ckheads who want to fly a flag outside their homes, or wave one at a demonstration. Those are the braindead they are sending the message to. Rational people can see the difference.
No one watching the aircraft would give two hoots about it not displaying the swastika, it's clearly German with the other marking and the show should outline it's history.
I for one would, as I know that the guy flying the 109 around is not doing it to "rally the cause". and it infuriates me that we have to continually keep dumbing things down because a few are incapable. The f*ckwits who are cheering just because it has a swastika on it, are going to cheer it anyway if it only has crosses on it for what it represents. They're not smart enough to know the difference. Everything is an emblem to them. Banning things just pushes it underground. Do you think that not being able to fly a flag changes peoples thoughts? If they're neo-nazis flying a flag, they'll still be neo-nazis without one. It's just not so obvious.

Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 12th May 2022 at 00:44.
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Old 12th May 2022, 01:00
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I for one would,
I just want to know why a swastika painted on a 109 or 190 makes all the difference? Serious question, why do you particularly care that its painted on a rebuild or replica, when its the machine that is important? Is it purely that you don't like it being banned or do you need it to be on the aircraft to make it authentic. I really don't see why it needs to be there, you don't see it on German tank rebuilds and replicas from the era, and they were often adorned with it in wartime, why planes?
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Old 12th May 2022, 01:16
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This thread was intended for comments on proposed legislation to prohibit use of a symbol which many people find abhorrent and unacceptable.

The original post adequately commented upon exemptions which may be granted and were less or not offensive - as in the symbol remaining on the German Bf109 display aircraft.

The thread was never intended as a forum for bush lawyers to climb on their soap box and debate the symbols, morals and philosophy of National Socialism (Nationalsozialismus) associated with Adolph Hitler and the Nazi Party in Nazi Germany.

Thread closed!!!
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