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ADS-B “IN” at Ballina?

Old 3rd Apr 2022, 01:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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So what about this?
https://business.gov.au/grants-and-programs/automatic-dependent-surveillance-broadcast-rebate-program
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 02:12
  #42 (permalink)  
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So the answer seems to be

"no RPT aircraft operating into Ballina are fitted with ADSB in. "
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 02:27
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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You wallys need to pull your heads in and stop beating up on Sunfish. He has the gold-standard equipment fit which, if replicated by all, would markedly improve safety without the nonsense of Class E.

Triadic, linked in post 21.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 06:05
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by triadic View Post
Not much coverage below 3000ft https://www.airservicesaustralia.com...ds-b-coverage/. I find it interesting that there is no ADSB coverage in the Cairns area as they seem to rely on the radar there??
Looking at the maps there, it appears as if there is one stationed at Cairns (though the coverage provided by it looks a bit hit and miss).

I do take your point though, for example there isn't one at Adelaide which has a huge number of ADSB equipped GA aircraft in the area from the flight training school that does a lot of the international training down there.

Even with good radar coverage, I'd have thought it would be pretty useful for a controller to be able to see call signs of all the GA aircraft traversing around in E & G rather than just blips squawking 1200.

Amazing to think that Flight Radar 24, that uses essentially amateur receivers all over the place (mind you their receivers pick up and collate the same high integrity data that is received by Airservices ADSB receivers) provides a much more useful level of coverage than what Airservices Australia can provide their controllers. I wonder if any of them are ever tempted to get out their phone to check Flight Radar 24 to confirm the identity of something squawking 1200 or to see circuit traffic at an aerodrome with no Airservices ADSB receivers...
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 06:35
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mikewil View Post
Amazing to think that Flight Radar 24, that uses essentially amateur receivers all over the place (mind you their receivers pick up and collate the same high integrity data that is received by Airservices ADSB receivers) provides a much more useful level of coverage than what Airservices Australia can provide their controllers. I wonder if any of them are ever tempted to get out their phone to check Flight Radar 24 to confirm the identity of something squawking 1200 or to see circuit traffic at an aerodrome with no Airservices ADSB receivers...
Just get Telstra to put an ADSB ground station on every mobile phone tower.
Build your own ADS-B aeronautical radar with low-cost equipment - https://ferrancasanovas.wordpress.co.../introduction/
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 08:51
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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So there's all these planes with out but not many with in????
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 10:07
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RickNRoll View Post
So there's all these planes with out but not many with in????
YES, spot on!

IFR, many flying schools and a solid number of private operators have OUT, but very few have IN.


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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 10:31
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
YES, spot on!

IFR, many flying schools and a solid number of private operators have OUT, but very few have IN.
Which is a pity. The increase in situational awareness will reduce radio clutter and mitigate missed R/T when switching from Centre to CTAF and vice versa.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 10:57
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps consider these points.
ADS-B OUT allows ATC to have the situational awareness of your position relative to other aircraft (terrain, restricted airspace) and be able to provide you with a separation, alerting or flight information service.
If you have ADS-B IN then its more like self-service where you have the situational awareness of other aircraft who have ADS-OUT.

USA study looking at accident rates for GA planes & air taxis 2013-2017 found that the aircraft equipped with ADS-B IN were 48-53 % less likely to have an accident and 88-89 % less likely to have a fatal accident.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 22:52
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ADS-B OUT allows ATC to have the situational awareness of your position relative to other aircraft (terrain, restricted airspace) and be able to provide you with a separation
ATC can do this.........where they have coverage. But where is their coverage and to what level?

ADSB is cheap compared to radar, much much cheaper. But if ASA had coverage to the ground, then they'd be sort of obligated to provide a service. Which means they'd be obligated to increase the amount of Controlled Airspace, particularly in areas like Ballina.

ASA don't want a bar of VFR, VFR is the dogshit on the sole of your shoe when you've walked into a nice whiskey bar. They can't make coin out of VFR, so **** right off. It doesn't matter that the odds say that it'll be a VFR that hits a Part 121 (or vice versa) at Ballina.
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 12:02
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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USA study looking at accident rates for GA planes & air taxis 2013-2017 found that the aircraft equipped with ADS-B IN were 48-53 % less likely to have an accident and 88-89 % less likely to have a fatal accident.
That study shows the effect of a third party supplementary system that uses the ADSB system to deliver additional information to apps installed and displayed on ADSB-In receivers. ADSB-IN in and of itself is not going to produce those results.
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 12:52
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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So even if everyone has OUT, then you've still got potential for a Mangalore type incident. If everyone has IN and some kind of display, then chances are reduced, particularly with traffic awareness via EFB software or mounted hardware (eg Garmin), but there's always going to be someone who has it turned off or doesn't know how to work it properly. You'll never remove the human element.
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 14:16
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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IN ain't the be all and end all. I've seen IN traffic on the PFD and not been able to spot it outside, and there's real potential of staring at the PFD in the circuit, and that causing a prox.
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 17:58
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Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
IN ain't the be all and end all. I've seen IN traffic on the PFD and not been able to spot it outside, and there's real potential of staring at the PFD in the circuit, and that causing a prox.
Yep - agreed. But it's become part of my scan.

Revelatory thread; I'd assumed the RPTs operating in Western Queensland were similarly equipped to our humble single engine pistons prior to this.

Can anyone answer if RFDS is ADSB in equipped please?
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Old 4th Apr 2022, 20:52
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The Dynon integrated ADSB - IN unit displays a filtered target set (within about 5nm and +- 1000ft) on the map page of my system and an aural and visual warning if its algorithm thinks a conflict is possible. While I haven't kept exact statistics, I reckon I visually spot about half to two thirds of these targets AFTER they are painted - the ones I miss seem to usually be helos moving low and slow or fast things at the edge of visual range.

I treat it as another aid to situational awareness along with radio. Its greatest value to me seems to be within about 5 - 7 nm of the circuit as aircraft manouver to join or depart, in the circuit itself its unnecessary.

What I can't guard against is a purist with no radio or transponder - unalerted "see and avoid" is a mugs game.

I fail to understand why anyone would be flying without some form of radio and or electronic conspicuity device these days.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 04:01
  #56 (permalink)  
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I understand the RFDS has ADSB out but not in.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 07:46
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Other than an EFB or a non-certified Dynon, there’s no affordable and easy to install ADSB-in solution. If you thought that the ADSB-Out mandate was expensive, that’s got nothing on IN, because unless you have a device with a screen that happens to be compatible with IN, you’re talking about a major hardware installation.

We all just assumed that by fitting OUT, that magically ATC would be able to see us all and to provide separation!
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 18:28
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
I understand the RFDS has ADSB out but not in.
The difference in cost between the 335 (Out only) and 345 (In & Out) is circa $6k

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Old 5th Apr 2022, 22:57
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Originally Posted by Ironpot View Post
The difference in cost between the 335 (Out only) and 345 (In & Out) is circa $6k
True, but that's assuming you have a compatible cockpit display. If they have a big-screen Garmin thingamabob then yep, that's about all it'd cost, plus installation. But as Squawk7700 mentioned above, in the absence of that, you're talking biiiiig dollars to purchase and install something in a certified aircraft though there's a few new ones popping up for Experimental's in the sub-$2000 range, however even that is big bikkies for a lot of aircraft owners.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 23:08
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Would businesses like flying schools be eligible for support under the Technology Investment Boost as announced in the Budget? ADSB-IN, big-screen Garmin thingamabobs, big-screen iPads.

The Government is providing $1 billion to support small business digitalise their operations with a new bonus tax deduction. Businesses with an aggregated turnover below $50 million per annum will be able to deduct an additional 20 per cent of the cost incurred on business expenses and depreciating assets that supports their digitalisation. This will encourage businesses to invest in new laptops, improve cyber security, design a new website or adopt new software services.
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