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Pel Air to run NSW Air Ambulance

Old 9th Jan 2022, 00:54
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What happened to Steve McClay?
Still with Clyde’s Circus or retired?
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 01:22
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Originally Posted by Trojan1981 View Post
Very true, and the accident rate for aeromedical operators is extraordinarily high. At one point HEMS crew was the #1 most dangerous job in the USA. Will Australia go the same way? When you can ditch an aeromedical jet in the Pacific then pick up a state aeromedical contract only two years later, that suggests it will. A race to the bottom for conditions will produce the same result here. Ambulance NSW will have to wear the disruption associated with crew churn, unservicabilies and safety issues. The USA has a pilot shortage at this level for very good reason.
Time will tell.........time will tell.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 11:32
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When you can ditch an aeromedical jet in the Pacific then pick up a state aeromedical contract only two years later, that suggests it will
The Pelair ditching was 11 years ago...
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 23:17
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You make it sound like the RFDS has never had any incidents.....

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...aair200302172/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-...system/8698592
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Old 14th Jan 2022, 00:41
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Originally Posted by Checkboard View Post
The Pelair ditching was 11 years ago...
And Vic Air Ambulance contract was nine years ago...
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Old 14th Jan 2022, 00:56
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
I don't work for the RFDS and have no dog in the fight but the issues uncovered by the ATSB/BASI in the ditching investigation were far more fundamental than any uncovered in these RFDS incidents. They also identified a pathological safety culture and a total lack of organisational support for operational crew. I don't know if the current contractor has improved it's game since then. Hopefully they have, or they will end up with a smoking hole in the ground and likely prosecution under the far more stringent WHS Act (created in 2011). Action from the aviation regulator will pale by comparison.

That said, hopefully they have lifted their game. Time will tell.

Last edited by Trojan1981; 14th Jan 2022 at 01:14.
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 06:54
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I saw today, not even a month into the contract, that they are advertising for B350 Aeromed pilots in Sydney. Teething troubles or……..
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Old 26th Jan 2022, 06:12
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No. But got two jets arriving this year that need to be crewed.
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Old 26th Jan 2022, 07:08
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Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
No. But got two jets arriving this year that need to be crewed.
In a state the size of NSW 🤦‍♂️
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Old 29th Jan 2022, 12:52
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Yes Morno....................In a state the size of NSW. Firstly, do some googling, 5 B350s then one to be replaced by two PC24s.

And why does that seem an overkill? Confirm airmed run a bunch of Mustangs out of Bankstown? And have done so for a long time
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 00:06
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RFDS B350 maintenance now contracted out to Falcon Air at BK
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 04:24
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack View Post
Yes Morno....................In a state the size of NSW. Firstly, do some googling, 5 B350s then one to be replaced by two PC24s.

And why does that seem an overkill? Confirm airmed run a bunch of Mustangs out of Bankstown? And have done so for a long time
No need to be defensive. NSW isn’t exactly that big of a state that you’d gain much of an advantage by operating a jet vs a turboprop, especially if they were smart and got some B360’s with Blackhawk mods.

You’re not doing primary retrievals, you’re doing inter-hospital transfers. The patients in 99.95% of cases are stable and not needing jet like responses.

Jets would purely be a waste of money. But it looks like that’s what they’ve done. How’s Pel Air’s history of operating aeromed in jets again?
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 07:01
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Geez morno. You really are a knob. The ambulance service does do lots of primary transfers. Lots. Secondly, Pelair don't pick the aircraft, answ do. Yep, a westwind went diving, but on your logic of no company can ever improve, or can never build a safety record again, best shut down Qantas (qf1) and many other major operators.
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 08:59
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack View Post
Yes Morno....................In a state the size of NSW. Firstly, do some googling, 5 B350s then one to be replaced by two PC24s.

And why does that seem an overkill? Confirm airmed run a bunch of Mustangs out of Bankstown? And have done so for a long time
I think the experience with Central and Western RFDS was that the PC12 was a quicker machine than the PC24, patients on to patients off, on sectors up to 300ish nm. All the time saved with an extra 150 knots gets lost in longer loading, start flow and checklists. Assume that would translate to PC24 vs. 350 too?
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 12:11
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The PC24 can be faster from doors close to stretchers off on the 90nm sectors, but you have to remember to start the second engine.
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 12:54
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Originally Posted by evilducky View Post
I think the experience with Central and Western RFDS was that the PC12 was a quicker machine than the PC24, patients on to patients off, on sectors up to 300ish nm. All the time saved with an extra 150 knots gets lost in longer loading, start flow and checklists. Assume that would translate to PC24 vs. 350 too?
You are quite right. IMO only 400nm and longer makes any real difference in terms of time with the jet.

However, if you and others think that time and speed are the only things that matter you couldn’t be more wrong.
Patient comfort and ability to avoid weather are on another planet compared to any turboprop.
Not to mention space for the medical team to work in.
When transporting critically ill people, what’s that worth?
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 20:16
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Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
Geez morno. You really are a knob. The ambulance service does do lots of primary transfers. Lots. Secondly, Pelair don't pick the aircraft, answ do. Yep, a westwind went diving, but on your logic of no company can ever improve, or can never build a safety record again, best shut down Qantas (qf1) and many other major operators.
I think you are mistaken about what a primary retrieval is. So you’re telling me that Air Ambulance fixed wing in NSW are picking up patients direct from an accident site and transferring them to their first hospital location?

And did I say anything about Pel Air choosing the aircraft? No, I don’t believe I did. Of course NSW Ambulance are the ones who stipulates what they want in their contract. Doesn’t mean I can’t comment on it though.

Now are you finished with the name calling?
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 20:23
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post
You are quite right. IMO only 400nm and longer makes any real difference in terms of time with the jet.

However, if you and others think that time and speed are the only things that matter you couldn’t be more wrong.
Patient comfort and ability to avoid weather are on another planet compared to any turboprop.
Not to mention space for the medical team to work in.
When transporting critically ill people, what’s that worth?
You are quite right rcoight. But if that were really a huge consideration for these companies, wouldn’t we have more than a handful of them in the country?
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 22:47
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
You are quite right rcoight. But if that were really a huge consideration for these companies, wouldn’t we have more than a handful of them in the country?
By the end of this year there will be eight, when three years ago there were none.
But I agree - turboprops in the form of King Airs and PC12s will and should be the mainstay into the future.
They do what they do exceptionally well, but there is a place for the jets in the mix too.
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Old 30th Jan 2022, 23:21
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I cant really see any disadvantage to the PC-24 except some strips the Kingair may be better suited to. Modern jet, what extra time does it need to prepare and get under way than a similar sized turbo-prop? Once airborne it will be faster en-route and it doesn't suffer the slow downs of commercial traffic if its operating medical priority. If you are comparing two airliners fair enough, but even then these days a 737 can get airborne not much slower than a dash-8 from start of taxi, most of the delay is just securing the cabin. And as said above the jet will have far better weather avoidance and altitude capabilities, as well as better prioritisation when not on medical priority. Pretty sure a medivac from Broken Hill to Sydney or Melbourne would be noticeably faster in the PC-24 than any turboprop. It also gives the opportunity to fly the patient closer to the specialist, or the specialist to the patient faster and in more comfort to get prepared. BTW the PC-24 is designed for these ops, it's not some 40 year old airframe re-jigged for aeromed.

If money was not a consideration I'd get V-22s, huge cabin, lands vertically, same max speed as the B-360, but can deliver the patient direct to the hospital. Might shake them up a bit though.
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