The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Aircraft down off Redcliffe

Old 19th Dec 2021, 10:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: AU
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Alice Kiwican View Post
Maybe no time to retract? May have been fixated on returning to airfield and not ditching? Sadly we will probably never know.

Sad day for the families. RIP
yes that was my thought too. Doesnít seem to be anyone recording Redcliffe CTAF on liveatc, wonder if he had a chance to get a call out.
KyleJR is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 10:32
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 276
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Hydromet View Post
ABC reporting 59 yo male pilot, another male and two children all deceased.

From ABC

The pilot was a 69-year-old man, with police saying they believe it was a booked joy flight

RIP

Thoughts go out to rescue crews, family, friends and all at Redcliffe Airport.

Last edited by Rotor Work; 19th Dec 2021 at 10:51.
Rotor Work is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 10:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: down under
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Spare a thought for the Qld water police and divers. Very tough job at the best of times, there were two kids in the plane.
cooperplace is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 19:06
  #24 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 13,954
Likes: 0
Received 26 Likes on 10 Posts
This is appalling. It looks like the front of the aircraft is extensively damaged, so possibly not a controlled ditching.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:25
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This plane has been around

formally registered as.... ZK-ELL, N96ET, N747WW, OO-TTC, C-GIHV, N4899W


https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/270937
mcoates is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 22:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stall spin after EFATO due to engine component failure or fuel exhaustion would be my initial thoughts.
PA39 is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 02:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: AU
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thereís some recovery photos coming through.

Moreton Alert on FB have some recovery photos up now.
KyleJR is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 04:33
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: HKG 'visitor'
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Firstly, this is a tragedy for the families and friends, traumatic for the rescue personnel and may the deceased RIP.

Perhaps there are some lessons to be learned which may come to light after a proper investigation. In the meantime, knowlege of the runway in use could provide a time factor and possible thought process. The wind on 19th appears to favour 07. The crash site appears to be adjacent to the wetlands area, approximately 1nm NW of the airport. The direction of flight prior to impact can't be definitively determined from the inverted resting site, but may have been from a westerly heading. The gear is down. The flaps appear to be retracted. This would appear a less than ideal configuration for a planned ditching or energy management.

Stall/spin? I'd doubt the later due to the apparent damage from energy disipation. A proper investigation will be more telling.

Radio call? Bottom of the priority list, but if given may relay intent/ highlight priority management.

A sad situation. Let's wait for the formal report.

spleener is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 05:59
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I like that, youíve told us what it isnít based on your opinion but yet youíre telling us to wait for the report??

Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 07:38
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Oz
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did many single engine overwater joy flights a million years ago when I first got my license. Never liked it.
Alt Flieger is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 08:04
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: circuit area
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don’t think the water had much to do with this one, the result wouldn’t have been much different if it happened over farmland or suburbia. Let’s just wait and see.
growahead is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 08:16
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PA39 View Post
I have around 1800hrs in the 114 and can say with the gear out they glide like a brick. Sad sad situation, the return to land after EFATO has trapped many an aviator.
I have no time on type. Is retract gear on EFATO checklist?
Pearly White is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 08:32
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The bush
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What powers the landing gear? Engine driven hydraulics? Electric? Electron driven hyd pump?
The Banjo is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 09:45
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabubil and Darwin
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Electrically powered hydraulic power pack, similar to most of the other single engine retractables. Iím pretty sure the system would struggle to retract the gear if the alternator wasnít pumping out itís normal output.

Itís gut wrenching to hear about these EFATO incidents when things go terribly wrong very quickly. Having lost a very good mate and mentor in his beloved V35 Bonanza which I also flew about 30 years ago, it certainly drives the message home to me before I take off in anything - have an emergency plan and self brief it or as a crew before every take off - NO EXEMPTIONS. At least then you have half a chance of a good outcome, even if the aircraft is destroyed.

Good initial and re-currency training saves lives in my humble opinion.

Last edited by Duck Pilot; 20th Dec 2021 at 11:07.
Duck Pilot is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 11:20
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Duck Pilot View Post
Electrically powered hydraulic power pack, similar to most of the other single engine retractables. Iím pretty sure the system would struggle to retract the gear if the alternator wasnít pumping out itís normal output.

Itís gut wrenching to hear about these EFATO incidents when things go terribly wrong very quickly. Having lost a very good mate and mentor in his beloved V35 Bonanza which I also flew about 30 years ago, it certainly drives the message home to me before I take off in anything - have an emergency plan and self brief it or as a crew before every take off - NO EXEMPTIONS. At least then you have half a chance of a good outcome, even if the aircraft is destroyed.

Good initial and re-currency training saves lives in my humble opinion.
That's what I expected - that the electrics might struggle to retract, and on some types the retract process temporarily increases drag due to doors opening, esp. on bigger aircraft e.g. B747.
If this was an EFATO it may have just been a lot of bad luck. Low, comparatively heavy with four up, no options except to land straight ahead. You get one chance to execute it as best you can while your heart climbs up into your throat. My grandfather died in not dissimilar conditions. I feel for all concerned.
Pearly White is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 11:28
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 1,961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There seems to be a lot of focus on that it was an EFATO, the news reports don't say much other than it went down behind the mangroves out of sight and then was later found by another aircraft in the circuit. Could have been numerous things, incapacitation, EFATO, other control failure, who knows. Unless the airframe failed, which does not look likely, then aircraft age and (old) history have almost nothing to do with it. Looks like the rear underside of the fuselage took quite a beating in the sequence so it may not have initially hit inverted. In any case ATSB will figure it out at some point.
43Inches is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 12:04
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pearly White View Post
I have no time on type. Is retract gear on EFATO checklist?
The 114 has a very lazy hydraulic pump that only allows basically 1 main gear retraction at a time.
i always taught my students to obtain a positive rate of climb and pull the gear in. As I said the 114 glides like a brick with the gear out. A great load carrier but with a ZFW, two cabin doors but aerodynamically a bit of a sled 145kts downhill out of an IO540.
PA39 is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 13:28
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
Posts: 1,834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pearly White View Post
..... Low, comparatively heavy with four up, no options except to land straight ahead.....
In respect to payload, two passengers described as younger than teen.

Mjb
mickjoebill is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 19:48
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
In respect to payload, two passengers described as younger than teen.

Mjb
At least add another 80-100 kg.
Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 20th Dec 2021, 23:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living in denial
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Alt Flieger View Post
Did many single engine overwater joy flights a million years ago when I first got my license. Never liked it.
Circuit direction at Redcliffe is always over the water, 07 left hand 25 right hand, so not an intentional trip over the water, it just how it is there. 07 departures you will normally be over the water by the time you reach 500ft.
Cessna Boy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.