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Are we losing interest ? What's happening ?

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Are we losing interest ? What's happening ?

Old 20th Sep 2021, 13:58
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
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All internet forums are not immune from those on the end of the spectrum who just can't control their emotions and resort to unsavoury methods to make their point.

We had an incredible one on our local community page on FB. Essentially, someone wanted to restrict the major road between his house and his workplace to bicycles only without any consideration to other residents that live on this road. His one-man campaign was incredible, threatening legal action when challenged, and even scared council enough to conduct a study. He's still at it years later.

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Old 21st Sep 2021, 22:57
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mcoates View Post
Greetings, as a regular visitor to this forum over many, many years I am noticing a real decline in what is available for me to read.

Every morning without hesitation, I log online and look at a couple of forums that I have an interest in and try to keep up-to-date with all things aviation.

Is it just me or is there a real decline in the people using these forums and therefore the amount of information we are sharing ?

To me, it looks like everybody is just losing interest, have got too old and are not flying or they have changed to other interests and hobbies.

Hopefully I am wrong and it is just a "slow period" in the life of the forum but what do others think ? Should I be looking at other avenues to feed my obsessions.
Yes and as already pointed out posts generally denigrate into personal slanging matches.
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 02:00
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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As mentioned above, Facebook groups are more relevant and accessible than PPRuNe, which hasn’t adapted with the times. The newer generations don’t get involved in this site anymore because it’s full of dinosaurs with old school views. A lot of opinions on PPRuNe have always been trash, but now they are out dated too. Plus every thread seems to end up being an argument about COVID. You’ll all probably disagree, but you’re also the sort of pilots memes on Instagram are correctly making fun of.
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 02:05
  #44 (permalink)  
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Where are these other Facebook type sites ?
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 02:23
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VH-FTS View Post
As mentioned above, Facebook groups are more relevant and accessible than PPRuNe, which hasn’t adapted with the times. The newer generations don’t get involved in this site anymore because it’s full of dinosaurs with old school views. A lot of opinions on PPRuNe have always been trash, but now they are out dated too. Plus every thread seems to end up being an argument about COVID. You’ll all probably disagree, but you’re also the sort of pilots memes on Instagram are correctly making fun of.
Really!!! well last time I checked the same Aircraft in the same Companies are still operating today, the same ones I flew 10 years ago, so do share this new school learning you speak of, I'm beside myself in anticipation.

P.S I've been hearing about this new school learning for about 40 years. I've always prided myself in keeping up, including HTML5 all the why back to VLF Omega, that was around before you were sucking on your mumma's teet. but just for laughs I do flip out the old CR3 now and again, it tells me everything I need to know faster than you can turn on your calculator. So come on then I really want to know.

Last edited by Xeptu; 22nd Sep 2021 at 06:33.
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 09:14
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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I make a point of largely avoiding the ANZ forum and this one.
Occasionally I check in to see if there's anything interesting.
But the amount of acidic bile and negativity, particularly in the Australia - New Zealand forum and mainly from one or two individuals there is just a waste of time.
All they do is whine and complain - and offer no positive solutions.
Much better to hang out in other forums, where there's wit, and a bit of wick too.
Don't really care about the UX - look and feel - it's the banter and info I'm interested in.
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 10:06
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Really!!! well last time I checked the same Aircraft in the same Companies are still operating today, the same ones I flew 10 years ago, so do share this new school learning you speak of, I'm beside myself in anticipation.

P.S I've been hearing about this new school learning for about 40 years. I've always prided myself in keeping up, including HTML5 all the why back to VLF Omega, that was around before you were sucking on your mumma's teet. but just for laughs I do flip out the old CR3 now and again, it tells me everything I need to know faster than you can turn on your calculator. So come on then I really want to know.
If you're having a joke, well played sir. But if you're serious, this is exactly the type of attitude I was talking about. This bullshit is exactly why two generations of pilots now have no time for PPRuNe. But many of you can't see the problem when you are the problem. Look forward to your reply when I drop back in a week or two and see what all the crusty old guys are complaining about now.

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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 10:30
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VH-FTS View Post
If you're having a joke, well played sir. But if you're serious, this is exactly the type of attitude I was talking about. This bullshit is exactly why two generations of pilots now have no time for PPRuNe. But many of you can't see the problem when you are the problem. Look forward to your reply when I drop back in a week or two and see what all the crusty old guys are complaining about now.
Well I have no clue what your talking about, seriously explain it to me, I honestly want to know, I won't judge.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 00:15
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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It's become mostly deja vu all over again all over again. Each cycle tends to involve less well-informed input on the one hand and frustration - sometimes complete resignation - by those who know of what they speak on the other.

A new talking head 'in charge' at CASA? Used to generate pages and pages of speculation about the 'big changes' that would - surely this time - save the aviation world. These days: Shrug and move on.

Regulatory 'reform'? Only in the Orwellian world of 21st century Australian 'government' could a stinking and abandoned pile of regulatory crap be described as 'resolved' and completed'. What's the point in highlighting the truth when those responsible have no shame?

A new 'inquiry' into some aviation-related issue? Used to generate pages and pages of speculation about what would happen - this time - when the truth was finally revealed - this time - and the government or Parliament would take strong action to change things - this time. These days: Most are standing by for another damp squib report. The Senate Committee inquiry into GA has been nobbled, and not just by Covid-19. The focus on the small number of submissions is a weak excuse that fails - as usual - to comprehend the implications of the submissions that have been made and, ironically, why there are so few. And the Committee wouldn't know how to change things for the better, even if it wanted to.

Airspace procedures and arrangements? The OAR has only one oar these days, which is why it spends so much time paddling in circles. Amusing at one level; ghastly from an air safety perspective.

ATSB? Too many works of fiction - some deliberate, some inadvertent - passed off as investigation reports. Submission #54 to the current Senate 'inquiry' into GA provides a glimpse into the ATSB/CASA protection racket. And it amazes me to see how many exhaustive, world-wide searches for executives result in the same-old same-old jagging jobs on the aviation bureaucracy merry-go-round. Again, trying to shame people who have no shame is a pointless exercise.

Airport 'privatisation' and divestment? What other outcomes would we expect in a country where property development spivs have so much influence? Highlighting the consequences here won't change anything.

And then there's the misnomer - at least down here - "professional". Name any other site where "professionals" carry on as many do here and name any other "profession" that would tolerate some of the things that pilots do and say to their colleagues. As others have observed, pilots in Australia are their own worst enemy.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 01:21
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Agree entirely with KRviator, an inappropriate response to a legitimate question. That said, I don't see that sort of thing is any different in other forums like facebook, in those forums responses are usually just a few meaningless words and either for or against. Specialist forums are not anonymous, so members are less likely to make an ass of themselves among the members. Clubs are notorious for that type of behaviour, factions, long before the internet.

My main objection is blaming it on "dinosaurs with old school views" without explaining that which is not "old school" we didn't make the rules nor did we have any part in the sops or company policy, they pay us though to comply with them the same as you.

Now that I'm retired and it's my aircraft, we do it my way and you can call it any school you like, any questions.

P.S Pilots are not on the professions list.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 05:54
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I agree totally with KRviator's sentiments.

Particularly with new folks and aspiring pilots joining the forums and asking questions. I have often seen responses like "if you'd have used the search function you wouldn't have to ask that question" or something to that effect. The way I view that type of response is it's like a potential student walking in to a flying club, asking a question, and being told "Ask that guy over there, I told him last week". So OK, maybe search was an option. But it isn't exactly welcoming and wouldn't be acceptable in real life. And frankly nobody here is obliged to answer questions. If we want our industry / hobby / passion to thrive, there needs to be more welcoming support to anyone who shows an interest, and some respect for those whose opinions don't align with our own.

As a child I had a whole lot of people who warmly supported my passion, put up with my incessant airplane talk, and indulged my stupid questions. I had the same welcome the first time I walked in to a Flying School. I suspect I may have walked away if I got the sort of responses I see here regularly.

I must say I think we need a dedicated Regulatory / Regulator thread, maybe combined with a What Cheeses Me Off thread. Perhaps that might let us have some proper hangar talk and flying stories - the stuff that bores my better half. Every thread doesn't have to come back to how it's all CASA's fault (even if that is the case).


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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 07:28
  #52 (permalink)  
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As a child I had a whole lot of people who warmly supported my passion, put up with my incessant airplane talk, and indulged my stupid questions. I had the same welcome the first time I walked in to a Flying School. I suspect I may have walked away if I got the sort of responses I see here regularly.
Hear bloody hear!!! Especially the second paragraph!

It depresses me no end to see some beginner/prospective/new-be put up a post asking questions, even though they may be possibly easily having obvious answers (but only to those who already know) to get nothing but sarcastic or patronising replies.

But the amount of acidic bile and negativity, particularly in the Australia - New Zealand forum and mainly from one or two individuals there is just a waste of time.
All they do is whine and complain - and offer no positive solutions.
Others elsewhere have noted likewise.

I must say I think we need a dedicated Regulatory / Regulator thread, maybe combined with a What Cheeses Me Off thread. Perhaps that might let us have some proper hangar talk and flying stories - the stuff that bores my better half. Every thread doesn't have to come back to how it's all CASA's fault (even if that is the case).
Over to you, Mods.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 13:33
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Forums like this generally are dying, it’s mainly just us old people on them now as most youngsters are on things like Reddit or discord and obviously Instagram perhaps also Facebook (but that’s apparently also for old people)

I’ve seen a few online communities also go through a similar journey over the years, firstly they’re a (usually) friendly place where like minded people gather over a shared interest, then there’s a push to get numbers up before a sale to the big organisation who come in with all their rules and whatnot. Now they’re all suffering with the initial theme of the forum diluted, no real community feel and no new enthusiasm to power the whole thing. They basically become victims of their own success to a certain extent.

They often go from being communities and sources of information for the users to a way of getting sales or clicks on another business for the new owners and the users are just an inconvenience needing to be moderated.

Plus there’s not much flying going on with the pandemic and Microsoft flightsim 2020 is out, so many pilots are probably on that instead.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 20:03
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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It's a reflection of the times

Partly it's a reflection of the times. As well as having a life I run a very different website with a focus on the airline community, and my web traffic there is 80% down on what it was back in 2019. It's a membership site and the blunt truth is that so many airline people have lost their jobs, have quit the industry and moved on.
I'm sure Prune will survive, albeit just like those legacy carriers who will still be around in a decade and more.
Harking back to the heydays of Prune glory, I also wrote a whole novel in the aviation genre where I got much authentic background from the various threads on here. Of course, I was not allowed to advertise it here, but it still did OK.
Like others have said, I used to be a daily user, but now my activity has dwindled to an occasional peek.

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Old 24th Sep 2021, 00:06
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by whatdoesthisbuttondo View Post
Forums like this generally are dying, it’s mainly just us old people on them now as most youngsters are on things like Reddit or discord and obviously Instagram perhaps also Facebook (but that’s apparently also for old people)

I’ve seen a few online communities also go through a similar journey over the years, firstly they’re a (usually) friendly place where like minded people gather over a shared interest, then there’s a push to get numbers up before a sale to the big organisation who come in with all their rules and whatnot. Now they’re all suffering with the initial theme of the forum diluted, no real community feel and no new enthusiasm to power the whole thing. They basically become victims of their own success to a certain extent.

They often go from being communities and sources of information for the users to a way of getting sales or clicks on another business for the new owners and the users are just an inconvenience needing to be moderated.

Plus there’s not much flying going on with the pandemic and Microsoft flightsim 2020 is out, so many pilots are probably on that instead.
If there was one I would hit the like button.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 01:56
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Some good comments above about why the forum is dying. The other consideration is many pilots communicate these days with each other via messenger apps. Most of the aviation information I receive is from a group chat, whereas 10 years ago PPRuNe would have the breaking news. Now it's common to hear about something interesting (incident or general aviation news), but it never sees the light of day on these forums. Many people also communicate visually these days via gifs, images, videos and memes. PPRuNe hasn't always been that user-friendly to upload that sort of content, and it is rarely seen.

When I joined over 15 years ago, a lot of the industry thought PPRuNe was toxic. Now it's toxic and the content is largely irrelevant. I used to ask questions during flight like "oh, did you read about blah on PPRuNe?", and the answers these days are usually "nah, it's all too negative" or "no, that forum is just a bunch of old white guys arguing". To be honest, they're correct and it shows the attitudes people outside this forum have about the site.

Ironically, part of the toxicity I mention is the back and forward I've got going with Xeptu. To answer your question about wanting to know the new school view, the biggest change over the last decade or so is attitudes in the flight deck and toward people in general. The captain isn't the be-all and end-all of the flight, it's the whole crew that needs to come together. FOs aren't just flap operators and FAs aren't just trolley dollies. There has been a push to improve crew resource management, and society's movement towards more respect for people in general. I've seen it in person and on these forums, where the older guys trash the opinions of the newer pilots. There's a lack of inclusion in general, and particularly in these forums. For example, the comments you see from time to time about female pilots or Alan's Joyce's sexual preferences (as examples) show that this forum isn't for everyone and outsiders aren't welcome. That's part of the reason why users and participation on this page are dropping.

Xeptu, your comments perfectly demonstrate the demeaning attitudes towards younger generations and why they don't want to be part of this forum:

so do share this new school learning you speak of, I'm beside myself in anticipation
P.S I've been hearing about this new school learning for about 40 years.
that was around before you were sucking on your mumma's teet. but just for laughs I do flip out the old CR3 now and again, it tells me everything I need to know faster than you can turn on your calculator.
You must have been a great guy to fly with, with attitudes like that. The sort of guy FOs would call in sick for, but you never knew because your thought you were perfect and the other pilot just politely smiles to get through their day. Or perhaps you were just having a bad day on PPRuNe, I'll never know. I'll take a bet you were just having a bad day, but unfortunately there are a lot of old school attitudes still out there.

Overall, keeping the forum like it is (both tech and attitude-wise) will mean only an older demographic continues to participate. But if that's what the developers and mods want, that's fine. In the meantime this is what the majority of the industry thinks of most of the people posting on these forums:


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Old 24th Sep 2021, 02:16
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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The Malaise is more than COVID19

As usual Lead Balloon and Dick are on the money, and its obvious enough that FB is making inroads. Another website caters particularly for the tragic scene of Australia’s General Aviation, its all part of a changing and competitive environment.

Thirty three years of a failed experiment, handing over the total regulatory function for Australia’s aviation industry to an unelected independent Commonwealth corporate, has reduced the aviator population, in large part by killing off hundreds of flying schools. If the BITRE statistics of declining activity in GA are related to our doubled population (say 50 yrs) then we see more realistically the forgone benefits, jobs, businesses and services that would have flourished if we had had a workable regulatory environment for GA.

Now the grapevine is saying that there’s a flurry of consternation within the fortress of Aviation Hearse. Maybe our new Minister Barnaby Joyce has told them to fix the mess? Time will tell.
Much of our exhortation for reform has been that CASA should follow the regulations of NZ and of the FAA. Canada too gets mentioned, and all three jurisdictions do have far better and more workable regulations.
How might this play out?
Let’s say that CASA has indeed conceded their outer perimeter, and waved the white flag to pacify that bunch of rabble in AOPA, and the rest of those unruly criminals, otherwise known as Australia’s General Aviation community.

“Yes Minister, we are looking at the changes we might be able to implement and we think we should make a study tour, NZ, USA and Canada to see if their models could work here.”

B.J., “How long will this take?”

“With COVID its hard to say, but a fortnight’s quarantine in Hawaii for our team might be arranged, then home again. After quarantine again there’ll have to be stakeholder engagement. What with Xmas, summer holidays and staff shortages we might be able to have legislation drafted say middle next year.”

(Around about election time! Yippee, we put ‘em off again and, with luck, a Labor Minister will dump the whole of this sorry ‘reform’ nonsense.)

This is how the salary factory works.

The only way that could lead to successful reform, a total capitulation, insist that:-

(1.) Glen Buckley is compensated.

(2.) Immediate reforms implemented by exemptions to allow independent instructors now. In effect what we we used to have.

(3.) Parallel licensing for RAAUS, GFA and VH pilots.

(4.) Car driver medical standards for PPLs.

(5.) Ask Home Affairs to remove the ASIC requirement in line with the Forsyth report 2014.

(6.) Chief Pilots allowed to certify each other’s annual Proficiency checks.

7, 8, 9, 10 etc., you name them.

If there’s no actual runs on the board right now there’s no change and no score, time fritters away, opportunities fade, and people die.


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Old 24th Sep 2021, 02:52
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
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Originally Posted by VH-FTS View Post
To answer your question about wanting to know the new school view, the biggest change over the last decade or so is attitudes in the flight deck and toward people in general. You must have been a great guy to fly with, with attitudes like that. The sort of guy FOs would call in sick for, but you never knew because your thought you were perfect and the other pilot just politely smiles to get through their day. Or perhaps you were just having a bad day on PPRuNe, I'll never know. I'll take a bet you were just having a bad day, but unfortunately there are a lot of old school attitudes still out there.
I didn't see myself the way you describe and I doubt that most of my colleagues did either, I could be deluded but they were always free to tell me I'm being an arsehole without consequence.

Here's the thing, what you have described has been the case since Adam and Eve. I know what you're talking about I was there. you will never please everyone you work with, there will always be factions, we called it the "in crowd" when you get to 70 and retired you will yourself be "old school" and a grumpy old geriatric, Wear the badge with pride because only you know the truth, everyone else has a very short memory. When you're retired, if they are telling you, you were an arsehole, then you were and even if you weren't after 5 years they won't even remember your name.

That's how it is and I've always said it how it is.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 08:51
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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wow, first time back, after 10 years or more... nothing has changed... if you dont change, you get left behind and become irrelevent.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 09:17
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by Ultralights View Post
wow, first time back, after 10 years or more... nothing has changed... if you dont change, you get left behind and become irrelevent.
10 years?

Someone else must have been using your account then.
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