What are aviation degree students being told?

[Climb150]

As the title says, what exactly are avaition students at universities that offer flying training being told about job prospects at the end of their course?

A quick flick through pprune would suggest many graduates think that they will go straight to Qlink with 200 hours, or maybe instruct for a year and then Qantas second officer is a given.

Please tell me this isn't true and most people who graduate with 100k+ dollars debt and a CPL have realistic expectations?

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by Climb150

As the title says, what exactly are avaition students at universities that offer flying training being told about job prospects at the end of their course?

What can anyone tell anyone about the future ? One would have to be clairvoyant to tell anyone what comes next in aviation.

[bafanguy]

Speculation will be endless. Some of it will ultimately turn out to be accurate but only by the pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey principle.

[Look Mum - no hands]

[QUOTE=Climb150;11008066]As the title says, what exactly are avaition students at universities that offer flying training being told about job prospects at the end of their course?

Whatever they need to hear to be convinced to sign on the dotted lne.

[Flyboy1987]

The Uni lecturers/career advisors in high schools need their @rses kicked.

They’re lieing to vulnerable/hopeful kids, then signing them up to 150k dollar debts in an industry where most will NEVER get a job which pays minimum wage.

There is no pilot shortage in Australia, most likely won’t be anything close to a shortage for 10 years.

Also, I’d imagine that most students have no real interest in actually flying...but more of an interest in walking around Tullamarine in a set of raybans, do 2 trips to LA a month and put cockpit pics on Instagram.

[machtuk]

Gotta remember flying schools, uni's etc are just a business, they generate income they are not there to make you feel good or do anymore for you than the min required to fleece you, job prospects of YOUR problem!

[Speed_Alive_V1]

Academia is often sheltered from the realities of the (any) industry. They'll often sell you on the fact that it takes 2/3/4 years to get educated, and when you get out the industry will be in a better position than it is currently. They'll say, well you won't get a job now anyway so why not spend your time doing something useful like studying. They may be right. Who knows where we will be in a couple of years.

I've just noticed you are referencing flight training institutions specifically. Yes there will be an influx of spare pilots for some time, but the money making machine rolls on as always. Carry on.

[TXU]

The fact that as a potential student to any large flight school you're being 'advised' by business development managers or G3 instructors desperate for hours etc etc speaks volumes and answers your question.

When you incentivise people to sign up new students they same lies get peddled year after year with little regard for the truth.

Let's face it you don't exactly have to be the worlds best salesman to sell the dream of flying for a living!

[Clare Prop]

Caveat emptor.

Way past time the Govt stopped dishing out loans for these courses.

Still waiting for the pilot shortage someone tried to use to sell me a full time CPL course 33 years ago.

I did a few units of an aviation degree and it was truly woeful.

[kingRB]

Originally Posted by Clare Prop

Caveat emptor.
Still waiting for the pilot shortage someone tried to use to sell me a full time CPL course 33 years ago.

you must have had your eyes shut then.

I've already seen two recruiting bonanzas and big industry movements in Oz since i've been in the game - one around 2005 /2006 pre GFC (which I missed) then another around 10 years later in 2016 / 2017 (which I managed to catch).
It's all about the timing and being ready when the next wave of recruiting arrives - they don't last long but when they are pumping the majors very much can't employ enough pilots.

It may be years now until we see this again, maybe not - but with expanding populations and economies its naive to think there won't be more.

[Climb150]

Originally Posted by kingRB

you must have had your eyes shut then.

I've already seen two recruiting bonanzas and big industry movements in Oz since i've been in the game - one around 2005 /2006 pre GFC (which I missed) then another around 10 years later in 2016 / 2017 (which I managed to catch).
It's all about the timing and being ready when the next wave of recruiting arrives - they don't last long but when they are pumping the majors very much can't employ enough pilots.

It may be years now until we see this again, maybe not - but with expanding populations and economies its naive to think there won't be more.

I hiring spike isnt a pilot shortage. When you have aircraft that can't be crewed, that's a shortage.

[kingRB]

Originally Posted by Climb150

I hiring spike isnt a pilot shortage. When you have aircraft that can't be crewed, that's a shortage.

uh yeah, there were multitudes of aircraft that couldn't be crewed - from all sectors of GA right through to regional airlines

[George Glass]

Hello ?
Reality calling.

DO NOT listen to academics or flying school spruikers.
QF has had most crew stood down for a year. Domestic is slowly coming back but can fall back into the crater as soon as some idiot Premier decides to close the borders again. Noticed what’s happening in QLD and NSW ?
QF International is dead in the water and will take years to recover. The A380s will probably never fly again.
Virgin International is finished. Permanently.
The effect of this pandemic on Aviation and Tourism is beyond catastrophic and will take many , many years to recover.
Go and do something else.

[Squawk7700]

You could say the same thing about University courses in general. You need more supply than demand, as things change and people move on, quit, retire, die or whatever, it’s a fact of life.

To loosely suggest that they should stop training pilots is absurd thinking.

[Jnr380]

Originally Posted by Climb150

As the title says, what exactly are avaition students at universities that offer flying training being told about job prospects at the end of their course?

A quick flick through pprune would suggest many graduates think that they will go straight to Qlink with 200 hours, or maybe instruct for a year and then Qantas second officer is a given.

Please tell me this isn't true and most people who graduate with 100k+ dollars debt and a CPL have realistic expectations?

The two major unis in Melbourne that provide courses are absolutely full of it.

That 100K from a university will probably only cover a CPL, Frozen ATPL with a SECIR (which is useless), it all depends on your finances, get government assistance and walk away with the need to spend an extra $30k to get a MECIR and a Retractable Undercarriage or if you have the money ready to go, you can get all the above for $100K.

If you’re waiting for an upturn in the industry, then maybe consider this path.

Do your CPL and G3 rating - Get a job instructing. While professionally working in the industry, go do your ATPLs and your MECIR and they’ll be claimable on tax so a win-win for you.

[Climb150]

Originally Posted by kingRB

uh yeah, there were multitudes of aircraft that couldn't be crewed - from all sectors of GA right through to regional airlines

Do tell which companies these were that cancelled schedules? Rex I think used it as an excuse but that was due to them not being able to train new hires fast enough.

[Climb150]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

You could say the same thing about University courses in general. You need more supply than demand, as things change and people move on, quit, retire, die or whatever, it’s a fact of life.

To loosely suggest that they should stop training pilots is absurd thinking.

I'm not saying that at all. You have missed the point entirely. Anecdotal evidence suggests these unis grossly misrepresent the opportunities available to students on graduation.

Now the student should have a little more common sense than to think that when they finish they will walk straight into a dash 8 but unis need to be truthful about employment stats for graduates.

Actually whilst I don't think Unis should stop flight training completely, I do think Unis should not be able to access govt funds unless the admission prerequisites are much higher. You could rack up the same level of debt for a medical or law degree but at least these degrees have transferable skills. A CPL is a one trick pony and completely useless outside of flying planes. Getting into Law or Medicine also requires you to be crazy smart. Avaition degree courses seem to take anyone with a pulse.

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[Deltasierra010]

Any relevant engineering or technical degree would be OK aeronautical engineering probably a good choice, join the university flying club, get a scholarship and see how it goes, either way you’re going to need a second string, lots of opportunities in aviation related businesses.

[dream747]

Tell them not to come to PPRUNE.

[lucille]

If you’re going to do a degree, at least do a proper one - one from any of the STEM disciplines. Then go spend your $100K on flying lessons. This degree will make you a far better pilot in the long term.

A MECIR with 200 hours TT is a joke, you’re uninsurable and only your daddy will employ you.

It’s no coincidence that the providers of aviation degrees are mostly former hairdressing colleges now calling themselves universities.