A plea for brevity - CTAF Broadcasts
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I don't find the 10 mile/6 minute call very useful because a lot happens in the circuit in 6 minutes - no-one can really know where they will be when you arrive. The one thing it does is give students a few extra minutes to worry about the other aircraft that also called at 10 miles, which they can't see because there is still many miles between them. Cue several minutes of "ABC, what is your current position" calls back and forth. The old 5 mile call was probably better.
The turning base call with intentions is very useful because it gives following aircraft the opportunity to adjust their base turn for spacing if you are doing a full stop.
A turning downwind call is useful for aircraft joining the circuit that need to fit in with aircraft on downwind. It's particularly useful when you have twins flying 3 miles on upwind doing whatever twins do, then coming back downwind at 160kt.
Joining the circuit is obviously an important call.
It's one of those difficult problems - if there is no-one in the circuit you don't need the calls but there is no radio congestion. If there are multiple aircraft in the circuit the radio is more congested, but e.g. turning downwind calls are more useful.
The turning base call with intentions is very useful because it gives following aircraft the opportunity to adjust their base turn for spacing if you are doing a full stop.
A turning downwind call is useful for aircraft joining the circuit that need to fit in with aircraft on downwind. It's particularly useful when you have twins flying 3 miles on upwind doing whatever twins do, then coming back downwind at 160kt.
Joining the circuit is obviously an important call.
It's one of those difficult problems - if there is no-one in the circuit you don't need the calls but there is no radio congestion. If there are multiple aircraft in the circuit the radio is more congested, but e.g. turning downwind calls are more useful.
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In the US it is normal to call when turning base and final... the idea being that 1) a banked aircraft is easier to spot, and 2) it narrows the location for looking.... also the CTAF by definition, is a shared frequency with potentially several airports within radio range... hence starting the call with Springfield Traffic as well as ending the call with Springfield eliminates that ambiguity...
You sorta have to there, it's like Chicago Ground on that frequency
Mind you, you could ask which genius left Caloundra and Caboolture (with the same runway direction) on a common frequency, whilst removing Redcliffe to their own frequency.
McLimit
Probably, having heard, read, and been told many such tales over the years they're all just one big blob now, but don't let facts spoil a good story.
Somewhat off thread, but one I definitely heard .......... Flying from Los Angeles to London, tracking over the North Western USA for a Polar route across the N.Atl.. dark,quiet night, i.e. " Radar indentified, omit position reports etc. etc. " suddenly the peace was shattered with .... ABC control this is XYZ etc. etc. and eventually.. XYZ is cleared as filed, omit position reports and at time 123 call YYY control on frequency 456, goodnight. Acknowledged. Soon after .... XYZ, you still with me ? Yep. You a 10 ( meaning a DC-10 ) Yep. Didn't know your outfit flew 10's. Do now. You bound for Vegas ? Yep. Waal, I guess your passengers need a 10 to take home all their winnings ? Nope, our passengers can take home their winnings in a Cessna 152.
I'll bet you didn't hear that, I'll bet you read it in an aviation mag like the rest of us.
Somewhat off thread, but one I definitely heard .......... Flying from Los Angeles to London, tracking over the North Western USA for a Polar route across the N.Atl.. dark,quiet night, i.e. " Radar indentified, omit position reports etc. etc. " suddenly the peace was shattered with .... ABC control this is XYZ etc. etc. and eventually.. XYZ is cleared as filed, omit position reports and at time 123 call YYY control on frequency 456, goodnight. Acknowledged. Soon after .... XYZ, you still with me ? Yep. You a 10 ( meaning a DC-10 ) Yep. Didn't know your outfit flew 10's. Do now. You bound for Vegas ? Yep. Waal, I guess your passengers need a 10 to take home all their winnings ? Nope, our passengers can take home their winnings in a Cessna 152.
I don't find the 10 mile/6 minute call very useful because a lot happens in the circuit in 6 minutes - no-one can really know where they will be when you arrive. The one thing it does is give students a few extra minutes to worry about the other aircraft that also called at 10 miles, which they can't see because there is still many miles between them. Cue several minutes of "ABC, what is your current position" calls back and forth. The old 5 mile call was probably better.
Originally Posted by Triadic
Saying it should be a distance does not allow for speed.
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That's rubbish. What's the point of talking so fast that nobody understands you? Or does it make the speed-talker feel so good about himself, but meanwhile he's incomprehensible to all others?
I don't get many of the calls, my eyes are like dinner plates when I fly around up there.why not simply mandate ACAS in all aircraft by 2070?
Interesting to see all of the differing views as to when and what to say. This is a reflection of what’s happening in the real world, non standard broadcasts requires great brain space to comprehend the information. If people would stick with the published recommendations life would be easier and safer.
Last edited by roundsounds; 8th Feb 2021 at 11:03.
Thread Starter
What's the point of knowing someone else's speed, if we have a distance/direction and an estimated time overhead/joining the circuit?
"VFR Jizzler ABC is one two miles west, inbound at two thousand fife hundred, circuit area two one."
As soon as I hear that, I picture where the aircraft is and compare my estimate at the same position.
These simple concepts seemed to be just that, when I was taught to fly. Why complicate it?
Spot on, roundsounds: Let's spend our flying lives staring at screens....
"VFR Jizzler ABC is one two miles west, inbound at two thousand fife hundred, circuit area two one."
As soon as I hear that, I picture where the aircraft is and compare my estimate at the same position.
These simple concepts seemed to be just that, when I was taught to fly. Why complicate it?
Spot on, roundsounds: Let's spend our flying lives staring at screens....
Not sure about Avplan but I’ve noticed OZRunways are showing the speed in their latest version when using ADSB-in which is quite handy.
I tell you what, if you don’t have a Skyecho or compatible adsb-in for your EFB, you really are missing out. So many aircraft on there that you never know were right near you! I see aircraft, their altitude and speed, long before I hear any radio calls.
I tell you what, if you don’t have a Skyecho or compatible adsb-in for your EFB, you really are missing out. So many aircraft on there that you never know were right near you! I see aircraft, their altitude and speed, long before I hear any radio calls.
Thread Starter
CS: No.
You also asked: Why would you deny yourself technology that gives you potential conflicting traffic without touching a button or uttering a word on the radio?
The answer is: For similar reasons for it now being an offence to touch your phone while driving a car in most places. Best to keep your eyes focussed outside the windscreen to see what's going on in real time in the real world, when operating VFR in the vicinity of an aerodrome in G. That's until ADSB Corporation guarantees performance and indemnity for liability when performance fails.
You also asked: Why would you deny yourself technology that gives you potential conflicting traffic without touching a button or uttering a word on the radio?
The answer is: For similar reasons for it now being an offence to touch your phone while driving a car in most places. Best to keep your eyes focussed outside the windscreen to see what's going on in real time in the real world, when operating VFR in the vicinity of an aerodrome in G. That's until ADSB Corporation guarantees performance and indemnity for liability when performance fails.
Instead of glancing at your map or GPS to safely navigate your aircraft, you glance at the electronic map and notice a blob on there that indicates another aircraft nearby. You may or may not wish to press on that blob and find out more information about it.
You can see registration, speed, position and altitude at a glance. A great supplement to a vague radio call or none at all!
You can see registration, speed, position and altitude at a glance. A great supplement to a vague radio call or none at all!
It was a quip Dora
CS: No.
You also asked: Why would you deny yourself technology that gives you potential conflicting traffic without touching a button or uttering a word on the radio?
The answer is: For similar reasons for it now being an offence to touch your phone while driving a car in most places. Best to keep your eyes focussed outside the windscreen to see what's going on in real time in the real world, when operating VFR in the vicinity of an aerodrome in G. That's until ADSB Corporation guarantees performance and indemnity for liability when performance fails.
You also asked: Why would you deny yourself technology that gives you potential conflicting traffic without touching a button or uttering a word on the radio?
The answer is: For similar reasons for it now being an offence to touch your phone while driving a car in most places. Best to keep your eyes focussed outside the windscreen to see what's going on in real time in the real world, when operating VFR in the vicinity of an aerodrome in G. That's until ADSB Corporation guarantees performance and indemnity for liability when performance fails.
Thread Starter
Understood. Fair point.
Thread Starter
Here’s what my EFB is showing at the moment. Is there one or more aircraft? At what position/altitude is/are it/they??
At least it's good to know someone is there
If you have skyecho look for green icons as they are from your receiver. Blue ones are from the ground(internet).
Regardless keep the eyes outside looking for traffic. Vfr is vfr - full stop.
