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QantasLink trainee first officer...

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QantasLink trainee first officer...

Old 22nd Nov 2020, 11:34
  #21 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
I recommended that pathway a little while back to a bloke in your situation and he ended up at QLink. Its also the pathway I took many years ago and I am now in the LHS of a jet. Nothing is guaranteed but as I understand the situation, instructing is still the one area of aviation that hasn't been hit badly by C19. Given the size of your debt at the moment extra for an instructor's rating won't be that much but you won't be able to put it on fee help. Your best option would be to do the rating with a school that can offer you a job afterwards. Thats my advice, others have a different view especially about instructing but from where I am currently sitting I haven't flown for a while but instructors havent stopped. Good luck and hang in there.
Thanks for that! I have asked around and the uptake of instructors is on standby. Even though the instructors at my college were working off their feet to get us through the course. I will consider the instructor rating if all else fails... thanks for your help!
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 15:08
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
Posts: 5,383
In Australia new fixed wing cpls are limited to:
  • Flying piston singles up north - WA, NT, QLD. The down side is that you have to be Johnny-on-the-spot (living in the town, odd-jobbing and vising the airport once a month or so to annoy them) - when the job appears which is normally due to one of the current pilots advancing (which requires the airlines to be hiring).
  • Flying instructing down south - NSW, VIC, WA. The downside is that you have to pay for a rating, and it's normally a zero-hour contract, so you'll need income support until you build up a student base.
  • In both cases - scrounging for twin hours where you can - positioning, flight tests, ad hoc charter, ride-alongs.
  • Being friends with an aircraft owner who would like a second pilot.
Fixed wing cattle chasing needs you to be a farmer first (knowing cattle and the country life is just as important as flying), power-line inspection is usually a side contract for companies doing something else, aerial photo cartography is usually done in twins with an experienced pilot, crop dusting needs quite a bit of tailwheel experience, and a year (at least) as ground crew refuelling and pumping chemicals...

That (in a "normal" industry, not a damaged one) goes on for three to four years, until you manage a full-time turbine job.

Last edited by Checkboard; 22nd Nov 2020 at 15:20.
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 16:18
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
Age: 52
Posts: 100
I held a frozen CPL for 22 years..
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 04:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2
You think you have debts, think of the students of Soar that are debt ridden and have nothing to show for it.

in fact one of the young students is Nerita Somers, any relation Nigel?

You are long down the list of work, so many experienced guys and girls out there.

Lot of the jet jockey I know are taking up GA cargo and instructor jobs either in the air or theory.

All I can say is keep trying but donít expect to be in the right side of a jet/turboprop for many years.

Remember, you are in debt but you donít pay that back until you earn a certain amount of income and then its taken from your tax anyway. So in reality its debt, but its not the same as many airline guys/girls that have debts and mortgages in the 100ís and thousands and even the millions.

So stop worry about the debt, its not as if your paying it now anyway, and even in a low paying GA job you wonít have to pay it anytime soon.

Get another job out of the industry and self fund hour building and extra ratings and endorsements then come visit flying in a couple of years, and forget about the debt you donít have to worry about it anytime soon.

Cheers..
PS: Long time lurker, decided to join. Currently an instructor with 2OCU.
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Old 24th Nov 2020, 12:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: these mist covered mountains are a home now for me.
Posts: 1,720
AHJ, lots of great advice, and relevant, but have you seen his previous posts about working for free and making youtube videos? Seems to be a high speed cheerleader arcing the fight...

Why mention your 2OCU job though?
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Old 26th Nov 2020, 01:24
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Victoria
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Aussie Hornet Jockey View Post
You think you have debts, think of the students of Soar that are debt ridden and have nothing to show for it.

in fact one of the young students is Nerita Somers, any relation Nigel?

You are long down the list of work, so many experienced guys and girls out there.

Lot of the jet jockey I know are taking up GA cargo and instructor jobs either in the air or theory.

All I can say is keep trying but donít expect to be in the right side of a jet/turboprop for many years.

Remember, you are in debt but you donít pay that back until you earn a certain amount of income and then its taken from your tax anyway. So in reality its debt, but its not the same as many airline guys/girls that have debts and mortgages in the 100ís and thousands and even the millions.

So stop worry about the debt, its not as if your paying it now anyway, and even in a low paying GA job you wonít have to pay it anytime soon.

Get another job out of the industry and self fund hour building and extra ratings and endorsements then come visit flying in a couple of years, and forget about the debt you donít have to worry about it anytime soon.

Cheers..
PS: Long time lurker, decided to join. Currently an instructor with 2OCU.
2OCU thing is very cool!

Don't suppose you need a FO in the back seat of an F-18 who hasn't ever sat foot in them? ill even hang off the wing of an f35!
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Old 26th Nov 2020, 06:14
  #27 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Runaway Gun View Post
AHJ, lots of great advice, and relevant, but have you seen his previous posts about working for free and making youtube videos? Seems to be a high speed cheerleader arcing the fight...

Why mention your 2OCU job though?
I am trying to get a break in the industry so I'm asking questions to get advice.
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Old 26th Nov 2020, 06:25
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Timbuktoo
Posts: 155
I am trying to get a break in the industry so I'm asking questions to get advice.
Pack your car, head north, get a job at Woolies/Coles/pulling beers, hand out resumes, settle in for the long haul and wait for a 206/210/Airvan seat to become available. It’s probably not the answer your looking for though.
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Old 26th Nov 2020, 10:15
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Aussie Hornet Jockey View Post
You think you have debts, think of the students of Soar that are debt ridden and have nothing to show for it.

in fact one of the young students is Nerita Somers, any relation Nigel?

You are long down the list of work, so many experienced guys and girls out there.

Lot of the jet jockey I know are taking up GA cargo and instructor jobs either in the air or theory.

All I can say is keep trying but donít expect to be in the right side of a jet/turboprop for many years.

Remember, you are in debt but you donít pay that back until you earn a certain amount of income and then its taken from your tax anyway. So in reality its debt, but its not the same as many airline guys/girls that have debts and mortgages in the 100ís and thousands and even the millions.

So stop worry about the debt, its not as if your paying it now anyway, and even in a low paying GA job you wonít have to pay it anytime soon.

Get another job out of the industry and self fund hour building and extra ratings and endorsements then come visit flying in a couple of years, and forget about the debt you donít have to worry about it anytime soon.

Cheers..
PS: Long time lurker, decided to join. Currently an instructor with 2OCU.

If this guys a Hornet Pilot then Iím an astronaut...
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Old 26th Nov 2020, 20:44
  #30 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by brokenagain View Post
Pack your car, head north, get a job at Woolies/Coles/pulling beers, hand out resumes, settle in for the long haul and wait for a 206/210/Airvan seat to become available. Itís probably not the answer your looking for though.
That is not the issue. The issue is trying to break into the industry during covid. This was why I brought up flying for free in another post (which attracted a few haters in the private message area).
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 01:03
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 1,937
Originally Posted by nigelsomers View Post
That is not the issue. The issue is trying to break into the industry during covid. This was why I brought up flying for free in another post (which attracted a few haters in the private message area).
Then WAIT until after covid you idiot.

Youíre not the only unemployed pilot out there
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 01:03
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Victoria
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by nigelsomers View Post
That is not the issue. The issue is trying to break into the industry during covid. This was why I brought up flying for free in another post (which attracted a few haters in the private message area).
Just ride out the storm i think is the best bet, youre in the same boat with many others (including myself) and when travel takes off again (no pun intended), it will hopefully go back to normal!
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 01:46
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vermont Hwy
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by nigelsomers View Post
That is not the issue. The issue is trying to break into the industry during covid. This was why I brought up flying for free in another post (which attracted a few haters in the private message area).

you do realise, don’t you, that the suggestion by brokenagain was a way of trying to break into the industry during covid?

or does that sound like a little too much hard work and your expecting a free and easy ride with things basically given to you?

if that’s the case, don’t even bother with aviation.

you have been given a LOT of valuable advice and tips, for free, despite holding an unpopular view of how to get into a job.
the reason it’s unpopular is because just about everyone before you has gone and done the hard yards to make it where they have in this game.
its your choice whether to take the advice of those who’ve got the experience. I’d suggest you take notice of such advice. Change your attitude a bit and you might get that break you are so desperately searching.
a hard worker (whose not willing to do it for free just to screw everyone else over), who is enthusiastic and goes above and beyond what is expected, will stand out and impress your bosses/potential bosses.


now you could just be a troll. Even so, there will be other newbies reading all this advice and hopefully they take it.
if you not a troll, the other newbies who accept the advice given throughout your threads, which you seem reluctant to accept, will likely get the jobs ahead of you.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 02:41
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by nigelsomers View Post
That is not the issue. The issue is trying to break into the industry during covid. This was why I brought up flying for free in another post (which attracted a few haters in the private message area).
Pilots have often done many jobs outside the industry whilst waiting for flying work. This is especially relevant during a time where there is low/no demand for pilots. I have read about Qantas & Jetstar 787 pilots driving buses & Aus post delivery vans whilst waiting for things to pick up again. The idea here is to do whatever it takes to support yourself whilst waiting for the industry to pick up again, as well as using this chance to upskill & find different ways to make a living. It takes a bit of humility and courage, but it is very good character formation. Remember that pride always comes second in aviation! You've got to do what you've got to do to get to where you want to go to. Think outside the box a little bit - you don't necessarily have to be doing something in aviation right now! This is a very good chance for you to learn additional skills outside of aviation.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 05:05
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,203
you do realise, don’t you, that the suggestion by brokenagain was a way of trying to break into the industry during covid?

or does that sound like a little too much hard work and your expecting a free and easy ride with things basically given to you
Was at Tamworth many years ago as a visitor when QF cadets were going through. The norm was for them to be farmed out to GA for a couple of years, two lads were assigned positions in Darwin with some operator, they refused the appointment on the basis the city was in the sticks and had no amusement facilities for the off duty hours, both Sydney boys. I couldn't believe it, the world at their feet and presented on a plate with all the trappings, wonder to this day as to what may have happened to them, dropped from the QF scheme? Sounded like a little too much hard work and they were expecting a free and easy ride with things basically given them.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 05:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,742
a hard worker (whose not willing to do it for free just to screw everyone else over), who is enthusiastic and goes above and beyond what is expected, will stand out and impress your bosses/potential bosses.
I would avoid putting such cliches out there in aviation. Ultimately in life that holds true however in terms of the aviation industry there is alot of luck involved, and I have witnessed some really good, well qualified pilots get screwed over whilst some pretty ordinary operators who had connections in their younger years just breeze through. In the end everyone ended up where they wanted to be, but I wouldn't say that just being a hard worker in aviation necessarily counts for anything. I think it is a myth that needs to be dispelled because it will only lead to bitterness. This becomes a bit of a issue as all airlines work along seniority lines so if your goal is to be an airline pilot once you get in there is very little you can do to accelerate your career. So getting screwed early in your career can actually have a detrimental affect on your entire life.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 05:31
  #37 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Time Map Ground View Post
Pilots have often done many jobs outside the industry whilst waiting for flying work. This is especially relevant during a time where there is low/no demand for pilots. I have read about Qantas & Jetstar 787 pilots driving buses & Aus post delivery vans whilst waiting for things to pick up again. The idea here is to do whatever it takes to support yourself whilst waiting for the industry to pick up again, as well as using this chance to upskill & find different ways to make a living. It takes a bit of humility and courage, but it is very good character formation. Remember that pride always comes second in aviation! You've got to do what you've got to do to get to where you want to go to. Think outside the box a little bit - you don't necessarily have to be doing something in aviation right now! This is a very good chance for you to learn additional skills outside of aviation.
Really appreciate that advice. I was thinking of getting a part time job in construction while things turn around. Looks like I've been told!! Not trying to offend anyone as I am clueless and hence asking.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 05:34
  #38 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
I would avoid putting such cliches out there in aviation. Ultimately in life that holds true however in terms of the aviation industry there is alot of luck involved, and I have witnessed some really good, well qualified pilots get screwed over whilst some pretty ordinary operators who had connections in their younger years just breeze through. In the end everyone ended up where they wanted to be, but I wouldn't say that just being a hard worker in aviation necessarily counts for anything. I think it is a myth that needs to be dispelled because it will only lead to bitterness. This becomes a bit of a issue as all airlines work along seniority lines so if your goal is to be an airline pilot once you get in there is very little you can do to accelerate your career. So getting screwed early in your career can actually have a detrimental affect on your entire life.
I wonder just how many guys like me that graduate from flight school ultimately never find any work. Do you have any idea? Or is it true that everyone eventually finds a flying gig somewhere at some point?
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 05:56
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 308
Originally Posted by nigelsomers View Post
I wonder just how many guys like me that graduate from flight school ultimately never find any work. Do you have any idea? Or is it true that everyone eventually finds a flying gig somewhere at some point?
Out of six close mates who learnt to fly at the same time (and school); only two of us got jobs flying. We were the two out driving the Tractors while the others complained about no jobs....

Last edited by 717tech; 27th Nov 2020 at 12:23.
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 06:19
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 529
Out of 12 who started with me 3 are left. Only one is flying a jet and we got CPLs 15 years ago.
The other were out of the industry within 2 years of finishing.

Last edited by Climb150; 27th Nov 2020 at 14:58.
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