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How do you keep pushing?

Old 27th Sep 2020, 11:59
  #101 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 567
Originally Posted by plotplot View Post
Any of them in here by any chance?
Yes, I am a product of pre 89 but more importantly the recession that followed Black Wednesday, it did its worst in 90-91. it shaped me and played a part in every decision I made ever since and still today. I became well aware of how the aviation industry is effected every time someone stubs their tow. I retired early from the airlines, still fly my own ship mostly for the family business, rarely for pleasure and never for anyone else. I love flying, always have since Neil and Buzz stepped on the moon, but hate the airline industry for all the reasons you are discovering. All I can say if it's your passion, chin up, eyes on the ball, keep moving forward.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 01:04
  #102 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Stag Lane
Age: 49
Posts: 72
I stopped pushing and threw in the towel.

My story:
2001 - CPL and first job (piston sightseeing) for a horrible, dangerous, dodgy operator. I learned a lot about self preservation from that gig.

2002 - Piston charter/survey for a good operator

2005 - I became chief pilot (HOO these days). Like others have said, you do look back at the GA years fondly. I could fill a book with the stories.

2007 - Said company goes bust and I have to quickly find work. I ended up in the corporate world for a large organisation and suddenly saw that I could make a whole lot more money for a whole lot less time and effort. A good job was easy to find, a CPL is still (well it was then) a well regarded qualification outside of the industry. I also found that the skills I had gained in GA were very sought after outside of aviation and easily transferable to an office job. I progressed quickly inside the company. Also, living in the big smoke for the first time came with all of it's associated benefits.

2008-2013 - I actually look back at this time as the most enjoyable of my career. Working an office job can come with great conditions and it can easily become secondary in life, making room for other interests. I always found that flying became priorities 1, 2 & 3 in life, I was never able to succesfully balance anything else. I negotiated going part time at work, 3 days a week and still making more than I had been as chief pilot so the mortgage was covered. The other 4 days a week I was able to do contract/casual flying to satisfy the passion and as a bit of a side earner. I was able to pick and choose the flying (and more importantly, operator) and really enjoyed it. I also met the lovely and got married. Throughout that time, I still envisaged the cockpit as my long term career.

2014 - Wife gets pregnant. I desperately wanted to be an involved father and present husband. Long story short - Having seen many relationships break down because of the pressures of aviation, I came to the conclusion that I could be the husband/father I wanted to be OR fly. I couldn't do both, I had to choose. I chose family and walked away from aviation. I went back full time at the corporate job and wound down the flying. Of course, as the world works, I got two pilot job offers soon after making that decision. Both were excellent flying, dream jobs, the stuff I'd always wanted and had worked years toward attaining. But both invloved long periods of time away, I said no to both, that HURT.

2014 - I grew to absolutely hate the office job, there are just as many c--ts outside of aviation as in it and if you happen to work for one your work life can be s--t. I also desperately missed the flying and resented not being able to take the job offers. The black dog grabbed hold hard, 2014 was a bad year.

2015-2016 - Absolutely love raising the little bub. I'm super involved, present for every single milestone and extremely grateful for the choices I've made. Thankfully I managed get away from the bad boss and to also hold a small flying job with a great operator. While only sporadic flying, it kept the hand in and was the very best flying you could do (in my opinion).

2017 - Kid two arrived, again I miss nothing. But that was the end of flying, not enough time and other pressures. I was still hating the office job, but it's paying the bills and comes with great conditions which support the family and allow my wife to follow her passion.

2017-2019 - Move into a new corporate job, this time within the aviation industry. Now we're talking. I still get the money and conditions, but get to be involved in aviation. Sadly, not at the pointy end, but I get to talk to people who can live it/love it vicariously.

2020 - The world implodes. Thankfully I have other experience to fall back on. I quickly picked up work back in the corporate world. It's boring, but it's easy and a it's a job (grateful for that at the moment!). Plus I've spent a heap of time at home with the family.

Do I miss flying? Well, I am still legal to fly, though it has been 8 months... and I still visit PPRuNe so.... GOD YES, I miss it dearly, it's my passion. I still look up with severely green eyes every time one of you lucky bastards flies over. But I made my choices conciously and I am happy with them. I can't envisage circumstance that would allow me to go back full time, but you never know.....that's why I stay current(ish)...

That's my story, it is up and down. It suits my strengths and limitations, but probably wouldn't suit others. I just thought I'd add it to show a different path. It was also enjoyable to put it down on a page, so thanks for that.

Last edited by 4forward8back; 28th Sep 2020 at 01:31. Reason: typos
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 07:58
  #103 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 34
Posts: 182
At some point the shine wears off

I think we all came into this industry with stars in our eyes and endless optimism. But eventually reality grinds that down to more a more realistic version of life.

I think the advice of some the other posters is very important. No matter what industry you are in you’ll find d***heads. No matter what industry you’re in, some companies will try and rip you off (wages). No matter what industry you’re in, GFC/COVID/Ansett style collapse will ruin your “expected” career path. No matter what industry you’re in you’ll find companies that try and cut corners.

So if you’re trying to avoid those things and think it’s just an aviation problem, I’m sorry but it’s everywhere. The grass is not greener on the other side.

I’ve also gone through periods were I wanted to escape:
- CPL and 200 hours, not enough for a job. Took me about 18 months to get a start and only because of a contact in the industry.
- trying to pay off my training loan and thinking how many more years it would take me on a rubbish GA wage. If I could have sold my licence to pay it off I would!!
- watching QF stop hiring in 2008 and then waiting until 2017 for applications to open again. When I started out, QF was the proverbial “light at the end of the tunnel” to keep me pushing forward. So having zero chance of getting in was a tough pill to swallow. Naive I know.... 😂
- having a good regional gig (LHS/training) and then having the company go bust. Then being forced to move sideways into another regional gig at a company I never wanted to work for. Considering every move I’d made so far was progression, this was frustrating.
- now being overseas and watching the chance of command evaporate due to the COVID downturn. Now means returning to Aus when hiring commences and probably joining JQ/etc 5+ years behind mates in the seniority list.

I look back at all these (minor compared to some) issues and I’m more than happy I stuck around. I wouldn’t change it for anything. But I do look to the future with the expectation I’m going to need something on the side to keep me happy and challenged, because I’m finding with more experience a lot of the challenges are now easy to deal with.

At the end of the day, this industry goes up and down about every 10 years. You’ll also have your health to manage (keeping a class 1). But it can also be a lot of fun. Flying all over Australia (or the world) is definitely an option. Having staff travel to use for family holidays is a game changer, we’ve been to dozens of places that we would never have otherwise been with kids. The pay is reasonable once you make it to regional LHS or jet f/o.

I’d suggest finding something else to take your mind off the things you don’t like about your current job. Family, renovating a house, plan a bucket list holiday, taking up a sport, etc. We all need “distractions” to get us through the tough times at whatever job we end up in.

Good luck.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 08:18
  #104 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,126
Originally Posted by Skippy69 View Post
Which airline is in the next couple of years take a 200 hour FO? Unless you're a local and have nice lips, that's not a reality for Aussie pilots to my knowledge.

Happy to be informed though
QF Group Academy is still recruiting for cadets to start early next year. Rex has a cadet course ready to start before the end of this year I believe. I guess by the time they’re finished training the respective airlines are expecting to need them.

It was clear airlines were moving towards a substantial cadet/academy model of pilot recruitment before this downturn hit, and they seem to want to continue that when recruitment restarts. Obviously it’ll be a long term investment, with the cadets expected to remain with their airline for years post training, of which the Covid situation will only be for a small proportion of their career.

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Old 9th Oct 2020, 00:45
  #105 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia the Awesome
Posts: 261
So Plotplot,

What did you decide to do?
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 02:04
  #106 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sierra village
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
So Plotplot,

What did you decide to do?
I started to write a jokey flippant answer to your question but paused for a second. It really is a grim time for pretty much everyone in aviation today. Not just pilots. There is simply no where in the world one can go to get a flying job.

To everyone doing it tough out there my thoughts and best wishes go with you. I doubt there has ever been a worse time. Fingers crossed things will pick up sooner rather than later.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 03:40
  #107 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: East Coast
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
So Plotplot,

What did you decide to do?
Just taking it day by day, Roj.

Pretty much once a week now I envisage my most dramatic resignation, but something usually brings me back down to Earth eventually. Like thought of how lucky I am to be even working at all let alone flying. And what would I even do if I did walk out. I left my last career for a reason, and I don't think it would take long before I started watching the planes overhead with envy as I did before.

It's purely the toxic management culture that leads to wanting to leave, and I don't want to let one company be the reason I leave aviation for good because I know I will regret it.

That said, another 5 years of this (quite realistic i feel) is something I'm not sure I'm up for. Every day still seems to bring more bad news at the moment.

Day by day.

Last edited by plotplot; 13th Oct 2020 at 04:44.
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Old 13th Oct 2020, 10:15
  #108 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,487
e A sense of humour is a great help......
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Old 14th Oct 2020, 00:02
  #109 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia the Awesome
Posts: 261
G'day Plot plot,

Originally Posted by plotplot View Post
I don't think it would take long before I started watching the planes overhead with envy as I did before.

You are infected with the same "Disease" that keeps the rest of us going through thick and thin, no other job will cure this unfortunately.

As Sunfish mentions, a sense of humour will help, and not taking yourself or others too seriously also.

All the best mate, and rest assured, you are not alone, I believe this thread has been helpful for many of us grappling with the strange times we are living through.


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Old 14th Oct 2020, 08:23
  #110 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eternal Beach
Posts: 1,082
Remember complaiing to a mate about all the f-its i have met in aviation. Seems to be full of 'em.
He replied..Ha! You should try the advertising industry! We have the most and best paid f-wits around.

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Old 14th Oct 2020, 21:49
  #111 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 192
My whole aviation career I’ve been hearing from the people how the grass is greener somewhere else. Turns out it never is. It maybe different grass but still has the same weeds throughout it.
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Old 15th Oct 2020, 04:59
  #112 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,837
Originally Posted by engine out View Post
My whole aviation career I’ve been hearing from the people how the grass is greener somewhere else. Turns out it never is. It maybe different grass but still has the same weeds throughout it.
I often discuss this with a friend of mine. He was at Ansett on the 76 domestic and he said that it was the best job he has ever had and he enjoyed every single minute of it for the years that he was there. He looked forward to going to work every time he got out of bed.

I’d bet that many can only wish they felt that way!

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Old 15th Oct 2020, 23:22
  #113 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 506
He was at Ansett on the 76 domestic and he said that it was the best job he has ever had and he enjoyed every single minute of it for the years that he was there. He looked forward to going to work every time he got out of bed.
Exactly the way I felt but I was on the 73. For those who can hang in there until this crisis passes I think you will be able to look back and see that this is the worst that can happen in aviation where every airline in the world is affected. Airlines will go through downturns in the future but when compared to this one it will be a walk in the park.
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 00:04
  #114 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Outback Australia
Posts: 349
The fabulous Bob Tair says:
"If you are not having fun, then why are you doing it?"
I can understand going through some Sugar Honey Iced Tea to get to an end goal, but if you don't know what the end goal is any more, and you aren't enjoying where you are, then it is deffo time for some soul searching, which it sounds like this is where you are at.
No job is ever worth your health - physical or mental.
Stay safe, and look after you.
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