New video to ASA Chairman on Class E airspace
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New video to ASA Chairman on Class E airspace
I have spent quite a lot of time in preparing this video on airspace.
I believe it has a message that we should at least do a costing for bringing the Class E airspace down to cover the approach – especially at airports that have ADS-B coverage and/or airline traffic.
I believe we have been lucky not to have had an airline accident in this 1930s style uncontrolled airspace.
For those who are interested, could I ask you to send an email to [email protected] advising the Minister of your views – either supportive or not supportive.
Both CASA and Airservices have stonewalled the media on this issue. They just don’t comment, so the media can’t write a story.
Anyone who has flown in the US system would know just how well the Class E airspace works. It is not a 1930s system, it is a 2020 system.
Thanks in advance.
I believe it has a message that we should at least do a costing for bringing the Class E airspace down to cover the approach – especially at airports that have ADS-B coverage and/or airline traffic.
I believe we have been lucky not to have had an airline accident in this 1930s style uncontrolled airspace.
For those who are interested, could I ask you to send an email to [email protected] advising the Minister of your views – either supportive or not supportive.
Both CASA and Airservices have stonewalled the media on this issue. They just don’t comment, so the media can’t write a story.
Anyone who has flown in the US system would know just how well the Class E airspace works. It is not a 1930s system, it is a 2020 system.
Thanks in advance.
I doubt with the downturn in income from COVID-19 that there will be any appetite to spend money on training to extend services. ASA will be looking at where it can save money and reduce services, not the opposite. I'm sure the industry does not want to be paying any more at the moment either.
A bit disingenuous Dick. There wasn't really ATC at high level and FS at low level in the old system. There was predominantly Uncontrolled airspace, and much smaller sections of Controlled airspace. A lot has changed. ATC do run it all now. There's a lot more controlled airspace. There is no duplication of services. It just didn't change the way you wanted it to. Doesn't seem to have got any cheaper either.
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Quite well done, concise and to the point.
ATC's de-skilled to cope with the old way of doing it, true and in a lot of cases much more time consuming and complex than separation.
Quite well done, concise and to the point.
ATC's de-skilled to cope with the old way of doing it, true and in a lot of cases much more time consuming and complex than separation.
When I started in FS/ATC there were 60NM wide corridors of controlled airspace over the continent and 100NM wide corridors over the ocean. I think the corridors were F250 to F450. Apart from CTR and CTA steps the rest was uncontrolled airspace.
Last edited by topdrop; 27th Jun 2020 at 23:47.
ATC's de-skilled to cope
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 28th Jun 2020 at 02:29.
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The terrible Mangalore fatal accident showed that the ATC had to sit and watch as the collision between two ADSB equipped IFR aircraft took place.
I can’t imagine much more de skilling than that!
I can’t imagine much more de skilling than that!
How do you know they "sat and watched"? They identified the conflict, passed traffic as required, and in all likelihood moved on to do something else (as happens probably a 1000 times a day throughout Australia). I'm sure that if they had been "sitting and watching" they would have tried to intervene as a duty of care, but sitting and watching what happens in G is not their job focus.
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but sitting and watching what happens in G is not their job focus.
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ATC weren't de-skilled.
I know exactly what he is trying to say. He is implying the system was "dumbed down". Traffic was still passed, aircraft were still separated. Nothing changed. It's just that one group of people now did both. So those people had to learn a new skill set to operate a whole new airspace category they had previously had nothing to do with. They were always, ALWAYS, going to have to just pass traffic in G (or not if we'd really followed ICAO). Separating was still their bread and butter and they did where it was mandated. They didn't where it was not. It's not deskilling, It's just applying different procedures to the relevant situation.
They are responsible for IFR traffic OCTA.
It's still your responsibility to ensure no prang happens.
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 29th Jun 2020 at 09:32.
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No it's not. It's the pilot's responsibility in G.
'pilots responsibility to see and avoid'
'but they were in cloud, can't see each other'
'stiff ****, that's their problem'
If those two had been VFR we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Dick's a 'funny guy' and his methods can be unusual, but he's right.
Mangalore will be just another episode of Airservices explaining what services it does not provide in G, backed up by the ‘independent’ OAR and ‘independent’ ATSB. The ‘delicious twist’ will be to blame it on Dick.
So cloud can't exist OCTA? Or do we only need ATC when it's cloudy? Maybe CTA to the ground everywhere, just in case it's cloudy somewhere? How many thousands of times in Australia has an IFR aircraft flown in cloud OCTA in the last, say, 70 years? And how many of those, besides these two, have collided? Hmmm, maybe alerted traffic (under both systems) might have something going for it?
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CTA to the ground everywhere is what I'm proposing is it?
Uh-huh, traffic levels haven't changed much in the last 70 years.
You're complicating what is a simple solution. Your dislike of Dick and anything he says is monotonous.
Uh-huh, traffic levels haven't changed much in the last 70 years.
You're complicating what is a simple solution. Your dislike of Dick and anything he says is monotonous.
You claimed IFR in cloud OCTA is indicative of our "woefully inadequate airspace classification". How else do you fix it? There's only one way they'll never be OCTA.
I don't dislike Dick. I've discussed issues on the phone with him. What annoys me is his tenuous knowledge of how things used to be (considering he ran the show f or a while), his insistence that his changes can be implemented at no cost, and his belief that the US system can simply be transplanted here, and operate with existing ATC numbers. Their system needs 15000 ATC to run it. We have about a thousand, who were already handling more aircraft per head per day than the US ATC were (pre COVID that is).
I don't dislike Dick. I've discussed issues on the phone with him. What annoys me is his tenuous knowledge of how things used to be (considering he ran the show f or a while), his insistence that his changes can be implemented at no cost, and his belief that the US system can simply be transplanted here, and operate with existing ATC numbers. Their system needs 15000 ATC to run it. We have about a thousand, who were already handling more aircraft per head per day than the US ATC were (pre COVID that is).