Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions
Reload this Page >

The Bag went but the passenger didn't

The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

The Bag went but the passenger didn't

Old 22nd Jun 2020, 10:59
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NZNS/YBBN
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Bag went but the passenger didn't

Just curious to see how this quarantined passengers bag was not offloaded before the flight
departed from Auckland to Christchurch

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...ation-disgrace

As I understand, it's Aviation Security law and the airlines own standard operating procedures that no
flight will depart before an offloaded passengers bag is also offloaded. I have had years in the airline
industry both NZ and AUS and I know the ramifications of allowing a flight to depart with one of these
bags still on board.
ozziekiwi is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 12:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,532
Received 72 Likes on 41 Posts
No problem here. Have another think about it.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 21:20
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NOYB
Posts: 84
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ozziekiwi
Just curious to see how this quarantined passengers bag was not offloaded before the flight
departed from Auckland to Christchurch

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...ation-disgrace

As I understand, it's Aviation Security law and the airlines own standard operating procedures that no
flight will depart before an offloaded passengers bag is also offloaded. I have had years in the airline
industry both NZ and AUS and I know the ramifications of allowing a flight to depart with one of these
bags still on board.
This is standard procedure, and I am shocked that someone with "years in the airline industry" isn't aware of this. Think about it. It's normal.
Eg. Just like when bags get left behind - they go on a flight without their owner.
InZed is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 22:25
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 1 Post
The difference here is that the passenger clearly intended to travel with his bag. It was not his idea to get off the aeroplane, that decision was made for him. He was not what we used to call a "vol disso".
Rodney Rotorslap is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 06:59
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,282
Received 130 Likes on 59 Posts
Whilst I am not familiar with the NZ regs (and thus make no comment on the rights and wrongs of this incident) I can't see how such a scenario would not in breach of the Oz Transport Security Regulations should this same scenario have happened in Australia. It provides provisions for not travelling with the pax bag under certain circumstances, but not this scenario.

Common sense suggests that there is in fact no safety issue in the incident under discussion, but the rules in Aus are written by lawyers with a directive to have their hands in the financial honeypot that rewards regulatory complexity and obfuscation, not practicality.
compressor stall is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 07:00
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 3rd Rock
Posts: 392
Received 92 Likes on 47 Posts
As Rod Rotor said: It depends on why the passenger didnt travel as to the bag policy.

Nine times out of ten the bag is offloaded due to a no-show so it has to be offloaded for security reasons. If its for something like a medical divert/disembarkation and the flight continues on, then there is no need.
Lapon is online now  
Old 23rd Jun 2020, 12:36
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,282
Received 130 Likes on 59 Posts
If its for something like a medical divert/disembarkation and the flight continues on, then there is no need.
Can you point that out to me in the Aus transport safety regs? I can’t find it.
and if it’s a no show it’s not 9 times out of ten. It’s 10.
compressor stall is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 02:14
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,268
Received 31 Likes on 23 Posts
In days of old, two TAA B727's launch out of Melbourne one headed to Adelaide and the other to Brisvegas. Minor problem as bags etc put on wrong aircraft so pax in ADL bags are now in BNE...whoops..
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 03:23
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 511
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
TBM, it wasn't just bags that were 90degrees out, It happened Ex ADL on the first lights of the day, The SYD crew got on the MEL aircraft and the MEL crew on the SYD one, Flts 23 & 21. You guessed it, they launched and whoops.

Passengers were no better in CBR. When the destination of the flight was announced before doors close, half the passengers would get off and board the aircraft parked next to it, flts 425 & 426.

CC
Checklist Charlie is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 04:47
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,532
Received 72 Likes on 41 Posts
The bags may not have been taken off but the OP certainly has!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 06:17
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 3rd Rock
Posts: 392
Received 92 Likes on 47 Posts
Originally Posted by compressor stall
Can you point that out to me in the Aus transport safety regs? I can’t find it.
and if it’s a no show it’s not 9 times out of ten. It’s 10.
9 times out of ten refers to the reason a bag is offloaded - a no show.

Cant show you in the regs because Im not interested in looking, just following company policy (large Australian airline) that has been in place since before I was.
Lapon is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 10:29
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Contained in Aviation Transport Security Regs
R4.21(6)(D), and
R4.21(B)(C).
Whether that applied in this case is maybe debatable. THe airline and the regulator can sort that out.
Roy Nolland is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 10:47
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,281
Received 162 Likes on 83 Posts
Most Companies would have their own approved procedures as alluded to above.
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 10:52
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,282
Received 130 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by Roy Nolland
Contained in Aviation Transport Security Regs
R4.21(6)(D), and
R4.21(B)(C).
Whether that applied in this case is maybe debatable. THe airline and the regulator can sort that out.
My point exactly, although I don't see much room in the debate. I don't see how such a situation (should it happen in Oz) would be defendable in front of the Regulator (not CASA) under those Transport Safety Regs specifically 4.21B.

And if my reading of the triple negative legalese is correct, a medical diversion does not appear in 4.21A (1)(a) as a reason not to have matched every bag to pax on board from 4.21 6(c).

Last edited by compressor stall; 24th Jun 2020 at 11:24.
compressor stall is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 11:30
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
defendable in front of the Regulator (not CASA) under those Transport Safety Regs specifically 4.21B.
You mean Aviation Transport Security Regs

Given that details have been reported in the news I would be surprised if the NZ CAA and Aus Dept of Home Affairs isn't looking at this already.

Part 108 of the NZ regs seems a little more relaxed than ours although it didn't apply in this case.

108.53(b)(7)
the air operator and the pilot-in-command are to assess the risk and decide whether a passenger’s baggage that is on board an aircraft is to be carried on the flight if the passenger has failed to board the aircraft

Last edited by Roy Nolland; 24th Jun 2020 at 11:45.
Roy Nolland is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 11:39
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,282
Received 130 Likes on 59 Posts
Originally Posted by Roy Nolland
You mean Aviation Transport Security Regs
Ooops, typo, yes.
108.53(b)(7)
the air operator and the pilot-in-command are to assess the risk and decide whether a passenger’s baggage that is on board an aircraft is to be carried on the flight if the passenger has failed to board the aircraft
wow. You’d never have something so pragmatic and sensible in regs this side of the pond.

Last edited by compressor stall; 24th Jun 2020 at 11:51.
compressor stall is online now  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 13:05
  #17 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,560
Received 401 Likes on 209 Posts
Years ago, when I left the RAF, we emigrated to the Far East. It was the day the IRA mortar bombed Heathrow airport.

All of my wife’s luggage went to Mexico. It took weeks to get it back; by then, judging by the labels stuck on the suitcases they had done a British Airways world tour. She was not impressed.
ShyTorque is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.