AOC or no AOC

[Squawk7700]

I recently made an enquiry and was given some information that I have taken at face value and presumably is subject to change depending on which employee of the department you ask.

What I’ll is write the questions I asked and you write what you think the answers are, then I’ll post what I was told the answers were.

AOC or no AOC.

1. The Channel X helicopter

2. The VicPol helicopter

3. Taking friends for a fly with you (cost sharing)

4. Taking a friend flying, cost sharing and he’s taking photos for his real estate business

5. Posting a YouTube video that goes viral and you make $1m from the advertising revenue

6. Posting videos on YouTube and selling a YouTube subscription to watch it

7. Selling a photo you took from your aircraft to a newspaper

8. Taking photos from your plane and selling them to a real estate agency

9. A grieving family pays you to look for a family members lost fishing boat

10. You find a missing fishing boat off Flinders Island and the owner gives you $500 for thanks

Enjoy!


1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

[Stickshift3000]

I'll have a crack - just to see the real answers!

1. AOC
2. No AOC
3. No AOC
4. AOC
5. No AOC
6. No AOC
7. AOC
8. AOC
9. AOC
10. AOC

[Alice Kiwican]

Originally Posted by Stickshift3000

I'll have a crack - just to see the real answers!

Me too...
1. AOC
2. AOC
3. NO AOC
4. AOC
5. NO AOC
6. NO AOC
7. NO AOC
8. AOC
9. AOC
10.AOC

[Capt Fathom]

Re Q5 & Q6....

Do you have to buy a subscription to YouTube?

I have watched the YouTube channel you have alluded to in the past, never had to pay for it!

Free to air.....

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by Capt Fathom

Re Q5 & Q6....

Do you have to buy a subscription to YouTube?

I have watched the YouTube channel you have alluded to in the past, never had to pay for it!

Free to air.....

Re YouTube - You can watch it for free, or you can subscribe for premium content, say $5 a month.

If it helps.. a basic YouTube channel is often monetised and it contains adverts for which the creator is paid to have them displayed on their videos. So.... the pilot is still being paid by someone, even if the viewer isn’t paying.

[Look Mum - no hands]

1 AOC (if used for filming, no AOC if solely used to transport staff)
2 No AOC
3 No AOC
4 - 9 AOC
10 No AOC

[Progressive]

I'll bite - with my reasoning for added value:
1 - AOC
2 - No AOC (under CAR), AOC for Aeromed work under new CASR's - aerial work certificate for everything else.
3 - No AOC (<6 pax), AOC if more than 6 pax
4 - AOC
5 - No AOC - youtube is by its own definition about sharing information, the photographer has no control (when where how) over people paying to advertise on his site. The goods for sale are essentially the spaces between his videos not the videos themselves.
6 - AOC - the photographers product is access to his videos he owns and controls the product.
7 - AOC
8 - AOC
9 - AOC
10 - AOC

[Sunfish]

Is this a necessary subject for debate in any other country? What does this thread and the one about obtaining an AOC tell about Australian Aviation regulation?

[Squawk7700]

Thanks Captain obvious.


Now, I’ll make it a bit easier, or harder for some...

Again, with the disclaimer that opinions in the department can vary...

Only ONE of the above requires an AOC.

Which one is it?


(Note: Questions 9 and 10 are mutually exclusive. They are in no way related and are not a consequence of each other).

[olderairhead]

2 police helocopter

[Lead Balloon]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

<Only ONE of the above requires an AOC.>

I’m guessing you didn’t get the answer in writing from a Federal Court judge?

[tail wheel]

Interesting ... I'd seek a second opinion from a CASA employee, it may prove interesting.

The Police require an AOC, that became a requirement a few years ago.

7. Selling a photo you took from your aircraft to a newspaper

8. Taking photos from your plane and selling them to a real estate agency

CASA successfully prosecuted a PPL photographer a few years ago in North Queensland for taking photos of properties from his aircraft and selling photos, without an AOC.

Be interesting to see the justification for only Police (?) being required to hold an AOC?

[Squawk7700]

Oh dear, this just got messy.

For the purposes of continuation, let’s exclude the Police as an edge case for the time being.

[Lead Balloon]

It “got messy” about 30 years ago...

[olderairhead]

9 search and rescue

[andrewr]

CAR 206 is messy because people seem to interpret it as meaning what they think it should mean rather than what it actually says.
Reading CAR 206 I can see:

• Only 2 of the sections mention payment: (1)(b)(i) the carriage of passengers or cargo for hire or reward and (1)(c) transporting persons generally, or transporting cargo for persons generally, for hire or reward. Presumably other sections require an AOC whether or not they are being performed for money.
• There is nothing that refers to the number of passengers

Aerial photography does not mention payment. My interpretation would be that it depends on the purpose of the flight - if you are flying for pleasure or recreation and take photos or video that is OK. If the purpose of the flight is to take photos or video, that should require an AOC.

[pcx]

Number 9 only.

[Sunfish]

OK, I’ll bite!

items 1,2, 9 and 10. AOC required - 1 (a) (ii) - aerial spotting. 1 (a)(ix) - ‘substantially similar” applies.

items 5,6,7 and 8 AOC required - 1 (a) (iv) - aerial photography and 1 (a) (v) advertising.

iems 3, 4 no AOC required.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by pcx

Number 9 only.

Bingo !! We have a winner.


The Police one is a curveball because a precedent may have been set that I was not aware of.

It is certainly an interesting discussion point and it comes up so often.

But go and change the wording of those ever so slightly and the context changes and then it becomes a different story completely.

[Lead Balloon]

And who is the source of this theory?