Any British Pilots Moved to Australia? Looking for AG/ crop dusting experience
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Any British Pilots Moved to Australia? Looking for AG/ crop dusting experience
Hey folks,
Just wondering if any folk from the UK have moved to Australia to get a flying job? I live in the UK and fly for the airlines but I'm looking to get low level AG time. Obviously not in the current crisis but going forward when some normality is resumed and flying jobs start to become available. So just wondering if anybody has made the hop across that way and how difficult it was to get a visa ect?
P.S. If anyone has any other ideas about where to gain crop dusting time please let me know!
Cheers!
Just wondering if any folk from the UK have moved to Australia to get a flying job? I live in the UK and fly for the airlines but I'm looking to get low level AG time. Obviously not in the current crisis but going forward when some normality is resumed and flying jobs start to become available. So just wondering if anybody has made the hop across that way and how difficult it was to get a visa ect?
P.S. If anyone has any other ideas about where to gain crop dusting time please let me know!
Cheers!
Hey folks,
Just wondering if any folk from the UK have moved to Australia to get a flying job? I live in the UK and fly for the airlines but I'm looking to get low level AG time. Obviously not in the current crisis but going forward when some normality is resumed and flying jobs start to become available. So just wondering if anybody has made the hop across that way and how difficult it was to get a visa ect?
P.S. If anyone has any other ideas about where to gain crop dusting time please let me know!
Cheers!
Just wondering if any folk from the UK have moved to Australia to get a flying job? I live in the UK and fly for the airlines but I'm looking to get low level AG time. Obviously not in the current crisis but going forward when some normality is resumed and flying jobs start to become available. So just wondering if anybody has made the hop across that way and how difficult it was to get a visa ect?
P.S. If anyone has any other ideas about where to gain crop dusting time please let me know!
Cheers!
Airline pilot huh? lazy comes to mind!
There is a rather prominent building in London named 'Australia House', perhaps you might drop in for a visit .......
The Aussie government has an excellent website for Visa applications.... Google comes to mind!
There is a rather prominent building in London named 'Australia House', perhaps you might drop in for a visit .......
The Aussie government has an excellent website for Visa applications.... Google comes to mind!
Australian visa system is very complicated and has many traps, there is only one source to get qualified visa information on Australian visas - Australian embassies are not qualified to give visa advice, they are allowed to give it - but not accountable for the incorrect information they often give.
There are a number of variables that affect visas you maybe eligible to apply for.
Here is a London based one - I have never used him but he does know his stuff, there about 5 other Australian based ones I wold also recommend.
https://www.suncoastmigration.com/
Pfft what a useless comment. The Australian visa website is a convoluted disorganised mess. Asking for someone that has actually gone through the process is a wise thing to do. There are many loops holes, tricks and words of advice that can be given by someone who has previously done it. A one hour consult with an immigration lawyer will help identify some of these, just have your question train lined up to get the most out of it.
As far as crop dusting work goes, I've only ever heard that it is quite difficult to crack into the market (the old who you know, and the egg/chicken with experience). I'd also wouldn't think crop dusting work hasn't declined in Australia, farming is still churning over.
Pfft what a useless comment. The Australian visa website is a convoluted disorganised mess. Asking for someone that has actually gone through the process is a wise thing to do. There are many loops holes, tricks and words of advice that can be given by someone who has previously done it. A one hour consult with an immigration lawyer will help identify some of these, just have your question train lined up to get the most out of it.
As far as crop dusting work goes, I've only ever heard that it is quite difficult to crack into the market (the old who you know, and the egg/chicken with experience). I'd also wouldn't think crop dusting work hasn't declined in Australia, farming is still churning over.
As far as crop dusting work goes, I've only ever heard that it is quite difficult to crack into the market (the old who you know, and the egg/chicken with experience). I'd also wouldn't think crop dusting work hasn't declined in Australia, farming is still churning over.
Doing some homework will certainly get the best from a consultation.
A visa will be processed I.A.W the immigration regulations & PAM 3 - trying to get a current copy of PAM 3 is tricky, but all RMA's have a subscription to it.
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There are foreign Ag pilots that operate in Australia, notably from Canada and NZ.
If that is really foreign....
So it is possible.
If that is really foreign....
So it is possible.
Last edited by currawong; 11th May 2020 at 06:01.
Cant speak for Aus but in NZ there is a pretty strong top dressing environment. Keep in mind though that the normal route is to start as a loader, ie driving the truck and filling the aircraft. You could be doing that for some time (years?) before being allowed in an aircraft. Maybe Aus is different but you wouldn't turn up to an outfit in NZ and just start flying, irrespective of how many hours you have. In fact your airline time potentially counts against you.
It's like GA in Australia where pilots use to displace every office position from secretary, to bookeeping to IT support because they're cheaper to employ or work for free. Very few other Industries in the world operate like that!
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Goes to show there is no pilot shortage in Ag Flying if that sort of stuff still occurs. You spend $50K+ on a license + low level training + crop dusting + whatever other flying experience you have to go and do something any farm worker could do and do it for years just for a 'shot' at crop dusting? Really?
It's like GA in Australia where pilots use to displace every office position from secretary, to bookeeping to IT support because they're cheaper to employ or work for free. Very few other Industries in the world operate like that!
It's like GA in Australia where pilots use to displace every office position from secretary, to bookeeping to IT support because they're cheaper to employ or work for free. Very few other Industries in the world operate like that!
Hard to get Ag pilots lately. Well, good ones.
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You must be an Austro-naut
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Goes to show there is no pilot shortage in Ag Flying if that sort of stuff still occurs. You spend $50K+ on a license + low level training + crop dusting + whatever other flying experience you have to go and do something any farm worker could do and do it for years just for a 'shot' at crop dusting? Really?
It's like GA in Australia where pilots use to displace every office position from secretary, to bookeeping to IT support because they're cheaper to employ or work for free. Very few other Industries in the world operate like that!
It's like GA in Australia where pilots use to displace every office position from secretary, to bookeeping to IT support because they're cheaper to employ or work for free. Very few other Industries in the world operate like that!
Really? By good one's do you mean somebody who will work for below award? Do you mean somebody who will load themselves for 3 weeks because "It's hard to get good help these days" and doesn't mind not being paid for that loading? Or somebody who will fly an aircraft out of MR, out of hours or fly an aircraft with a major defect?
There must be half the AG pilots working now than there was 10 years ago.
I would not recommend a change of career for an airline pilot to Agricultural pilot, the 2 jobs have nothing in common apart from aircraft. Sort of like saying being an abattoir worker qualifies you to do brain surgery.
Last edited by Super Cecil; 12th May 2020 at 09:48.
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I agree Nev, AG's not what it used to be
Really? By good one's do you mean somebody who will work for below award? Do you mean somebody who will load themselves for 3 weeks because "It's hard to get good help these days" and doesn't mind not being paid for that loading? Or somebody who will fly an aircraft out of MR, out of hours or fly an aircraft with a major defect?
There must be half the AG pilots working now than there was 10 years ago.
I would not recommend a change of career for an airline pilot to Agricultural pilot, the 2 jobs have nothing in common apart from aircraft. Sort of like saying being an abattoir worker qualifies you to do brain surgery.
Really? By good one's do you mean somebody who will work for below award? Do you mean somebody who will load themselves for 3 weeks because "It's hard to get good help these days" and doesn't mind not being paid for that loading? Or somebody who will fly an aircraft out of MR, out of hours or fly an aircraft with a major defect?
There must be half the AG pilots working now than there was 10 years ago.
I would not recommend a change of career for an airline pilot to Agricultural pilot, the 2 jobs have nothing in common apart from aircraft. Sort of like saying being an abattoir worker qualifies you to do brain surgery.
Thank you to all for your responses. Much appreciated!
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OK, sounds like you might be serious.
I would say it would be possible but difficult. It would depend on a lot of things, age, your GA experience, your drive and lots of other stuff.
There are a lot of AG pilots getting older and within the next 10 years a lot of those will retire.
Fire work is there for a limited number on contract, call when needed work is patchy, some years you will do a lot others years none. Fire work is only for maybe 5 months maximum. AG work in Australia is a lot less than what it used to be, often in drier years there is no work at al for casual pilots which Is the majority.
Because of sparsity of work there is all sorts of competition for that work driving down wages and conditions. Even for 7 months work a year you will need to travel and be prepared to stay in some rough accomodation. It is possible to do a fire season in each hemisphere if all your planets align, that would be a liveable income but no family life. AG flying is not family friendly in these times, in days gone it was possible for a pilot to sleep in his own bed every night, I've known pilots who went through their entire career with one employer and based in one town. For all but a few those days are long gone. AG flying is a selfish job, if you absolutely love flying at it's basic best then it might be for you.
I would say it would be possible but difficult. It would depend on a lot of things, age, your GA experience, your drive and lots of other stuff.
There are a lot of AG pilots getting older and within the next 10 years a lot of those will retire.
Fire work is there for a limited number on contract, call when needed work is patchy, some years you will do a lot others years none. Fire work is only for maybe 5 months maximum. AG work in Australia is a lot less than what it used to be, often in drier years there is no work at al for casual pilots which Is the majority.
Because of sparsity of work there is all sorts of competition for that work driving down wages and conditions. Even for 7 months work a year you will need to travel and be prepared to stay in some rough accomodation. It is possible to do a fire season in each hemisphere if all your planets align, that would be a liveable income but no family life. AG flying is not family friendly in these times, in days gone it was possible for a pilot to sleep in his own bed every night, I've known pilots who went through their entire career with one employer and based in one town. For all but a few those days are long gone. AG flying is a selfish job, if you absolutely love flying at it's basic best then it might be for you.
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Cant speak for Aus but in NZ there is a pretty strong top dressing environment. Keep in mind though that the normal route is to start as a loader, ie driving the truck and filling the aircraft. You could be doing that for some time (years?) before being allowed in an aircraft. Maybe Aus is different but you wouldn't turn up to an outfit in NZ and just start flying, irrespective of how many hours you have. In fact your airline time potentially counts against you.
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I agree Nev, AG's not what it used to be
Really? By good one's do you mean somebody who will work for below award? Do you mean somebody who will load themselves for 3 weeks because "It's hard to get good help these days" and doesn't mind not being paid for that loading? Or somebody who will fly an aircraft out of MR, out of hours or fly an aircraft with a major defect?
There must be half the AG pilots working now than there was 10 years ago.
I would not recommend a change of career for an airline pilot to Agricultural pilot, the 2 jobs have nothing in common apart from aircraft. Sort of like saying being an abattoir worker qualifies you to do brain surgery.
Really? By good one's do you mean somebody who will work for below award? Do you mean somebody who will load themselves for 3 weeks because "It's hard to get good help these days" and doesn't mind not being paid for that loading? Or somebody who will fly an aircraft out of MR, out of hours or fly an aircraft with a major defect?
There must be half the AG pilots working now than there was 10 years ago.
I would not recommend a change of career for an airline pilot to Agricultural pilot, the 2 jobs have nothing in common apart from aircraft. Sort of like saying being an abattoir worker qualifies you to do brain surgery.
Someone that can take off without doing quarter of a million dollars worth of damage to the aircraft.
Or land in less than five bounces. Or not need yellow post - its everywhere to remember checklists.
That sort of thing.
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No. Few applicants. The few that do turn up are not employed elsewhere for a reason, it seems.
Someone that can take off without doing quarter of a million dollars worth of damage to the aircraft.
Or land in less than five bounces. Or not need yellow post - its everywhere to remember checklists.
That sort of thing.
Someone that can take off without doing quarter of a million dollars worth of damage to the aircraft.
Or land in less than five bounces. Or not need yellow post - its everywhere to remember checklists.
That sort of thing.
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Absolutely. We have all been there.
The rough end of the trench in this game is rough.
I am just a line pilot, helping a prospect with info, and correcting some of the info here which may be accurate at a particular time or place, but maybe not everywhere all the time.
The rough end of the trench in this game is rough.
I am just a line pilot, helping a prospect with info, and correcting some of the info here which may be accurate at a particular time or place, but maybe not everywhere all the time.
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Visa issues aside, the Ag industry is very difficult to break into. You'll have almost no chance unless you spend a few years loading Ag Aircraft first. That's the 'apprenticeship' you'll need to do if you want an Ag seat. There is really no way of getting around that. Firstly, showing that commitment alone sorts out the folk who really want to go Ag flying from those who just think they want to go Ag flying. Secondly, it's the knowledge background you'll need prior to applying the chemical from the aircraft.
Thirdly, as an airline pilot from the UK you'll be perceived as someone likely to return to airlines, or to the UK, and no Ag operator is going to want to invest their time and effort in you - unless you load for a few years to demonstrate that you'll stick around.
Fourth, any ag company you join will likely already have a newly qualified Ag Rated pilot or two, loading aircraft, waiting for a seat - so you'll have to get in the line behind them.
Ag Companies aren't keen on airline pilots - sorry to say. It's just a completely different mentality, type of flying, lifestyle, personality, and background. You'll be seen as someone who set-up their career to push buttons on auto-pilot between big cities, whilst wearing a ridiculous hat and a joke of a tie - who the hell wears a tie when flying!?
You won't be perceived as someone who was ever keen on getting dirty in remote regions, or keen on flying between trees and under powerlines - or you would have done that in the first place, had it been the sort of flying and lifestyle that you wanted to pursue.
Sitting at some funny attitude like FL30 on autopilot whilst getting handed sandwiches and coffee has nothing to do with Ag flying, so your current experience is basically worthless.
Even flying at 100 feet is very different to flying at 2 feet. Flying 20 feet over the top trees and power poles is a very different perspective than flying towards and between then. Flying at some FL in a machine that takes half an hour to respond to a power change, and beeps at you when you bank or fart, is totally irrelevant to Ag.
I know a few Ag operators in Australia who are now getting Aussie airline pilots apply to them due Covid-19. Their attitude is to basically laugh at them - just like an airline recruiting team would laugh at someone's thinking they'd step straight into a 737 with only a background in flying VFR, single-engine, over crops, in the middle of nowhere.
Ag is kind of apart from the rest of the aviation industry. Most of the pilots are from a rural background and never wanted to do anything in aviation other than Ag.
Even city folk from Melbourne or Sydney who want to be Ag pilots are looked on with scepticism by Ag Operators - and not without good reason - how long are they going to stick around in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere before hurrying back to the city? What's their interest in farming? What do they know about chemical usage through the growing cycles of cotton, rice, wheat and other crops?
As an airline pilot, what do you know about fungicide application cycles on bananas, or defoliation timing on Cotton? Or Bloodworm control on Rice? Probably nothing, right?
What do you know about CP nozzles, or setting up Micronair atomizers to get the required droplet size? What do you know about decontaminating a hopper that held a herbacide with ammonia to prepare it for an insecticide? Screw that sort of thing up, and you'll destory a farmers million-dollar cotton crop!
Thus you need to do a few years working as ground crew before you start flying Ag and spreying chemicals from the air.
Without this background, and as an airline pilot from the UK, you're just not going to be seen as a good fit for Ag companies. And already you are saying you only want to do it to go firebombing. Firebombing would be great, but you need to regard Ag as a career, and not as a stepping-stone, or operators will see you as someone who is really not that interested in crop spraying / top dressing/agriculture, and they'll have no interest at all in having you fly their machines.
That said, if you can get a visa, and if you're prepared to work as a loader/driver/mixer for a few years, for an Ag operator, in the middle of nowhere, and thus show you're commitment, without any promise from the company you are loading for that they'll one day give you a flying position, then go for it!
But I bet you just stick to the 737. And that's what all Ag operators will bet you'll do too!
But best of luck! Drop me a line if you make it down to Australia and get a job as ground crew for an Ag operator!
Thirdly, as an airline pilot from the UK you'll be perceived as someone likely to return to airlines, or to the UK, and no Ag operator is going to want to invest their time and effort in you - unless you load for a few years to demonstrate that you'll stick around.
Fourth, any ag company you join will likely already have a newly qualified Ag Rated pilot or two, loading aircraft, waiting for a seat - so you'll have to get in the line behind them.
Ag Companies aren't keen on airline pilots - sorry to say. It's just a completely different mentality, type of flying, lifestyle, personality, and background. You'll be seen as someone who set-up their career to push buttons on auto-pilot between big cities, whilst wearing a ridiculous hat and a joke of a tie - who the hell wears a tie when flying!?
You won't be perceived as someone who was ever keen on getting dirty in remote regions, or keen on flying between trees and under powerlines - or you would have done that in the first place, had it been the sort of flying and lifestyle that you wanted to pursue.
Sitting at some funny attitude like FL30 on autopilot whilst getting handed sandwiches and coffee has nothing to do with Ag flying, so your current experience is basically worthless.
Even flying at 100 feet is very different to flying at 2 feet. Flying 20 feet over the top trees and power poles is a very different perspective than flying towards and between then. Flying at some FL in a machine that takes half an hour to respond to a power change, and beeps at you when you bank or fart, is totally irrelevant to Ag.
I know a few Ag operators in Australia who are now getting Aussie airline pilots apply to them due Covid-19. Their attitude is to basically laugh at them - just like an airline recruiting team would laugh at someone's thinking they'd step straight into a 737 with only a background in flying VFR, single-engine, over crops, in the middle of nowhere.
Ag is kind of apart from the rest of the aviation industry. Most of the pilots are from a rural background and never wanted to do anything in aviation other than Ag.
Even city folk from Melbourne or Sydney who want to be Ag pilots are looked on with scepticism by Ag Operators - and not without good reason - how long are they going to stick around in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere before hurrying back to the city? What's their interest in farming? What do they know about chemical usage through the growing cycles of cotton, rice, wheat and other crops?
As an airline pilot, what do you know about fungicide application cycles on bananas, or defoliation timing on Cotton? Or Bloodworm control on Rice? Probably nothing, right?
What do you know about CP nozzles, or setting up Micronair atomizers to get the required droplet size? What do you know about decontaminating a hopper that held a herbacide with ammonia to prepare it for an insecticide? Screw that sort of thing up, and you'll destory a farmers million-dollar cotton crop!
Thus you need to do a few years working as ground crew before you start flying Ag and spreying chemicals from the air.
Without this background, and as an airline pilot from the UK, you're just not going to be seen as a good fit for Ag companies. And already you are saying you only want to do it to go firebombing. Firebombing would be great, but you need to regard Ag as a career, and not as a stepping-stone, or operators will see you as someone who is really not that interested in crop spraying / top dressing/agriculture, and they'll have no interest at all in having you fly their machines.
That said, if you can get a visa, and if you're prepared to work as a loader/driver/mixer for a few years, for an Ag operator, in the middle of nowhere, and thus show you're commitment, without any promise from the company you are loading for that they'll one day give you a flying position, then go for it!
But I bet you just stick to the 737. And that's what all Ag operators will bet you'll do too!
But best of luck! Drop me a line if you make it down to Australia and get a job as ground crew for an Ag operator!
Last edited by Jerry Springer; 3rd Jun 2020 at 04:00.
