Avoiding VFR into IMC accidents
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
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From an air traffic controllers point of view, we will do our outmost to help if you get into trouble, noone is gonna yell at you on the frequency. We do understand that everyone makes a bad jugdement from time to time, and there's no need to kill the guys over that.
Even the authorities will normally go easy on folks now a days, they won't say "good job" or pad your back, but they will not fine or jail you either.
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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This was over 36 years ago during flight training. Me and my CFI checked the weather teletype (I told you it was a long time ago) and he "signed off" on my flight from a tower-controlled airport inside a radar-service area (I am not current and only fly as a passenger, so I don't know the current alphabet soup).
Climbed out and started encountering the cloud layer. My first reaction was "no big deal" because I had flown commercial out of that same airport and staring out from a window seat, crossing the cloud layer and coming out on top was such a conditioned experience. My next reaction was, "not cool -- I am not legally allowed to do this." My third reaction was, don't make your trouble worse, level off and key the microphone. "Departure, Warrior Thirty-Echo, it's kind of cloudy up here, I would like to turn around. Student pilot." I learned that last phrase from just having attended an FAA Safety Seminar.
The controller was exceedingly kind, gentle and non-scolding. I was vectored around until I get sight of the runway, where I was cleared to land. When I tied down the airplane, the guy behind me was the eye-in-the-sky traffic police officer. His weather info sent him up, too, but it was not a day to catch speeding motorists from the air.
Thanks ATC!
Climbed out and started encountering the cloud layer. My first reaction was "no big deal" because I had flown commercial out of that same airport and staring out from a window seat, crossing the cloud layer and coming out on top was such a conditioned experience. My next reaction was, "not cool -- I am not legally allowed to do this." My third reaction was, don't make your trouble worse, level off and key the microphone. "Departure, Warrior Thirty-Echo, it's kind of cloudy up here, I would like to turn around. Student pilot." I learned that last phrase from just having attended an FAA Safety Seminar.
The controller was exceedingly kind, gentle and non-scolding. I was vectored around until I get sight of the runway, where I was cleared to land. When I tied down the airplane, the guy behind me was the eye-in-the-sky traffic police officer. His weather info sent him up, too, but it was not a day to catch speeding motorists from the air.
Thanks ATC!
2 things:
1. I met an FAA instructor once who had flown out of Long Beach where he said IFR flight into VMC was commonplace (apparently instructors must have IFR licence) or they could not find any VMC to reach VFR! He did not like the Australian rules to instructors which apparently forbid such a practice, hence removing from students the experience of getting used to being in cloud and the difficulties they could encounter. He thought that was more value than teaching how to get out of trouble. This also assumes his flying school aircraft were equipped for IFR flight which also might be different in Australia. (Disclaimer: long ago conversation so details might not be accurate)
2. In conjuction with this post, a note about requesting special VFR clearance. According to ICAO PANS/ATM Doc. 4444 Para.7-14, this can only be issued by ATC to allow a VFR pilot to transit non-VMC conditions for the purposes of arriving, departing or transitting a Control Zone. Australian regulations modify ICAO in Part 172 Manual of Standards para 12.1.3 to allow Special VFR in Control Area, and not for transit purposes.
1. I met an FAA instructor once who had flown out of Long Beach where he said IFR flight into VMC was commonplace (apparently instructors must have IFR licence) or they could not find any VMC to reach VFR! He did not like the Australian rules to instructors which apparently forbid such a practice, hence removing from students the experience of getting used to being in cloud and the difficulties they could encounter. He thought that was more value than teaching how to get out of trouble. This also assumes his flying school aircraft were equipped for IFR flight which also might be different in Australia. (Disclaimer: long ago conversation so details might not be accurate)
2. In conjuction with this post, a note about requesting special VFR clearance. According to ICAO PANS/ATM Doc. 4444 Para.7-14, this can only be issued by ATC to allow a VFR pilot to transit non-VMC conditions for the purposes of arriving, departing or transitting a Control Zone. Australian regulations modify ICAO in Part 172 Manual of Standards para 12.1.3 to allow Special VFR in Control Area, and not for transit purposes.
- I recently heard Channel 9 news state that ATC had "allowed" the Kobe Bryant helicopter pilot to fly in non-VMC conditions, this is apparently (subject to NTSB Interin Report) true, but Ch. 9 is ignorant of the purpose of a Special VFR clearance. The only reason a controller should refuse a Special VFR clearance is if he/she cannot separate the aircraft from IFR or other Special VFR aircraft in the Class C or D control zone. Normally VFR flights in Class C or D can simply have traffic information on other VFR flights, but not under Special VFR. The controller is not required to make an assessment of whether Special VFR conditions exist, that is the pilots job, however controllers do have a duty of care to pass on relevant information such as a recent IFR pilots estimate of the visibility, and confirm the pilot still wishes to proceed Special VFR.
- So VFR pilots, do not assume that a Special VFR clearance contains a clearance to operate in less than the Special VFR minima for your type of aircraft, that is your job - it simply means that there are no other aircraft in your way.
Special VFR is very grey and always has been. They let potentially low time inexperienced VFR pilots into sub-optimal situations with very poor visibility.
My first intro to Special VFR was a very long time ago into Moorabbin. ATC told me it was IFR only, however I could request special VFR if I wanted to and continue as normal. So I did.... let’s just say I was very surprised anyone could fly VFR at the time and it felt like an accident waiting to happen.
If you didn’t know the rules you’d assume special VFR required an IFR rated pilot and IFR equipped aircraft, but without the requirement to follow full IFR procedures. It feels like that’s the way it should be.
My first intro to Special VFR was a very long time ago into Moorabbin. ATC told me it was IFR only, however I could request special VFR if I wanted to and continue as normal. So I did.... let’s just say I was very surprised anyone could fly VFR at the time and it felt like an accident waiting to happen.
If you didn’t know the rules you’d assume special VFR required an IFR rated pilot and IFR equipped aircraft, but without the requirement to follow full IFR procedures. It feels like that’s the way it should be.
In Canada we have a VFR-Over-the-top rating, which I picked up along the way to the CPL. It has a lot more instrument training than the night rating, seemingly to help if you get to dest and the forecast VMC is not there, as well as keeping level between layers.
Even before that, my night rating was enough to get me out of a bone-shaking foray into severe mechanical chop with IMC at night, while in the Toronto Terminal zone You know it's serious when the controller's voice is replaced by an older, more experienced-sounding one!.
The secret is practice. My instructors would never have made a living if they only flew in CAVU - the area around the Caledon Hills North of YYZ is notoriously unstable. Transiting to the practice area was often under the hood just to make sure I could keep the plane level.
Even before that, my night rating was enough to get me out of a bone-shaking foray into severe mechanical chop with IMC at night, while in the Toronto Terminal zone You know it's serious when the controller's voice is replaced by an older, more experienced-sounding one!.
The secret is practice. My instructors would never have made a living if they only flew in CAVU - the area around the Caledon Hills North of YYZ is notoriously unstable. Transiting to the practice area was often under the hood just to make sure I could keep the plane level.
Squawk7700,
In my opinion ATC should not have "offered" Special VFR.
It is the pilot's prerogative and if the pilot does not know about it then that is a good reason not to mention it!
Special VFR requires the pilot to be able to navigate visually:
By day, when VMC do not exist, the ATC unit responsible for a control zone may issue, at pilot request, a special VFR clearance for flight in the CTR, or in controlled airspace next to the CTR for the purpose of entering or leaving the CTR, providing
(AIP ENR 1.2):
In my opinion ATC should not have "offered" Special VFR.
It is the pilot's prerogative and if the pilot does not know about it then that is a good reason not to mention it!
Special VFR requires the pilot to be able to navigate visually:
By day, when VMC do not exist, the ATC unit responsible for a control zone may issue, at pilot request, a special VFR clearance for flight in the CTR, or in controlled airspace next to the CTR for the purpose of entering or leaving the CTR, providing
(AIP ENR 1.2):
- the special VFR flight will not unduly delay an IFR flight
- the flight can be conducted clear of cloud
- the visibility is not less than
- 1600 m for aeroplanes
- 800 m for helicopters
- for balloons, not less than 100 m below 500 ft AGL and 3000 m at and above 500 ft AGL
- a helicopter is operated at such a speed that the pilot has adequate opportunity to observe any obstructions or other traffic in sufficient time to avoid collisions and
- the flight can be conducted in accordance with the requirements of CAR 157 regarding low flying (see page 1.28 ).
Join Date: Mar 2014
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There are cases where the conditions for VFR in a control zone applies, but depending on where the VFR flight is, he may opt to request Special VFR.
For instance, the weather is fine, but the aircraft has to cross a ridge, which will bring him closer to clouds than the prescribed VFR minima for the CTR, the only option would be to ask for special VFR (or fly around).
Noone does that though..... eventhough they remove the safety built into the class D airspace where "see and avoid" applies between IFR and VFR by removing the 1000 ft separation from the clouds where IFR flights will be dumping out.
I don't think 4444 mention that you are not allowed not to offer special VFR? Just never even mention the word "VFR" to an IFR flight... or even think about it (they'll come during the night and drag you off).
For instance, the weather is fine, but the aircraft has to cross a ridge, which will bring him closer to clouds than the prescribed VFR minima for the CTR, the only option would be to ask for special VFR (or fly around).
Noone does that though..... eventhough they remove the safety built into the class D airspace where "see and avoid" applies between IFR and VFR by removing the 1000 ft separation from the clouds where IFR flights will be dumping out.
I don't think 4444 mention that you are not allowed not to offer special VFR? Just never even mention the word "VFR" to an IFR flight... or even think about it (they'll come during the night and drag you off).
