Box Hill TAFE drops Aviation Diploma

[Ixixly]

Originally Posted by pilotbm

Those numbers are totally misleading.
The lawyer is making out the school has only had 5 graduates, which is totally false. Over 65 CPL graduates have completed the Box Hill diploma and passed CPL flight tests.

A big portion of the 200+ registered by Gordon have only studied at Soar/Box Hill for less than 2 years - which means they would never have completed the course at this point anyway. Plenty more graduates at both campuses are very close to completing their CPL.

Soar/BHI’s biggest mistake is signing up people who never had the aptitude or attitude to study their way their way to a CPL - thinking they can rock up to 2 x 3 hour classes each week, and be presented with a CPL at the end of the 2 years regardless of their effort.

And that's 65 CPL Graduates over how many years? The fact that Soar/BHI took on students without vetting them first for some aptitude is a big mistake they have to own up to and it's going to cost them. It's not exactly rocket science that not everyone is going to make it and sometimes you have to make the hard decision to tell some people they just don't have it. If Soar/BHI were happy to keep taking peoples money knowing they had little chance of graduating within the amount quoted then it is their responsibility to speak up and give the Students the choice. If they haven't and just decided to let them bleed dry then that makes them money hungry grubs who will be dealt with.

Basically none of what you said has put them in any better light and when compared to Industry Average I think you'll find them far below and it'll come out in this case why and to what extent.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by pilotbm

Those numbers are totally misleading.
The lawyer is making out the school has only had 5 graduates, which is totally false. Over 65 CPL graduates have completed the Box Hill diploma and passed CPL flight tests.

A big portion of the 200+ registered by Gordon have only studied at Soar/Box Hill for less than 2 years - which means they would never have completed the course at this point anyway. Plenty more graduates at both campuses are very close to completing their CPL.

Soar/BHI’s biggest mistake is signing up people who never had the aptitude or attitude to study their way their way to a CPL - thinking they can rock up to 2 x 3 hour classes each week, and be presented with a CPL at the end of the 2 years regardless of their effort.

Interesting first post on pprune. Anyone would think that you worked for them.

[Sunfish]

Pilotbm

Over 65 CPL graduates have completed the Box Hill diploma and passed CPL flight tests.

...But you didn’t say that those graduates were actually granted CPL licences or studied and trained through SOAR. Is that what you mean or do you just want us to make that assumption?

[pilotbm]

Originally Posted by Sunfish

Pilotbm

...But you didn’t say that those graduates were actually granted CPL licences or studied and trained through SOAR. Is that what you mean or do you just want us to make that assumption?

I completed my training from ab initio to CPL holder in under 2 years, part time at Soar.
I saw plenty of dedicated students do the same.
I also saw plenty of students fly once a month, and not turn up to classes - then then around and say Soar failed them as a school.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by pilotbm

I completed my training from ab initio to CPL holder in under 2 years, part time at Soar.
I saw plenty of dedicated students do the same.
I also saw plenty of students fly once a month, and not turn up to classes - then then around and say Soar failed them as a school.

Did it get you a flying job other than there?

[pilotbm]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

Did it get you a flying job other than there?

I only finished this year, so clearly not.
I have, however, had no issue continuing on with further training despite my supposed lower grade CPL

[Mosman]

65 graduates out of how many students?

How many of those 65 graduates already had a CPL and were given Recognition of Prior Learning so they could get the Diploma? I believe quite a few instructors got their Diplomas that way.

How many of those 65 graduates completed the CPL flight test in an aircraft that doesn’t meet the CASAs requirements of a commercial trainer?

How many of those 65 graduates got a job anywhere but Soar?

[Stikman]

Originally Posted by Mosman

65 graduates out of how many students?

How many of those 65 graduates already had a CPL and were given Recognition of Prior Learning so they could get the Diploma? I believe quite a few instructors got their Diplomas that way.

How many of those 65 graduates completed the CPL flight test in an aircraft that doesn’t meet the CASAs requirements of a commercial trainer?

How many of those 65 graduates got a job anywhere but Soar?

By 2018, when The Growth Fund partnered with Neel, Soar had "grown to have over 400 students"..
Soar first became an RTO in 2015, when they partnered with Box Hill TAFE.
So....5 years, and only 65 graduates out of over 400 students? Makes ya think, don't it..

Incidentally, Neel didn't start Soar on his own....he had a partner, who got out *very* early in the piece...

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by pilotbm

I have, however, had no issue continuing on with further training despite my supposed lower grade CPL

That is to be expected. Training providers will happily take your money.

Trying to find someone to pay you for flying is where a sub-standard CPL will let you down.

[outnabout]

Ixixly, I have never heard of a flying school telling a student who has financial resources that the student should consider another career.

I have sat in the RHS of a few CPLs who definitely should have been told their chosen career should not involve aviation.

There are some flying schools that the boss will not hire from for these reasons.

It should also be a criminal offence for flying schools to tell young hopefuls that "of course" they will walk into a job on graduation..but just to help them get a competitive edge, they need to spend a bit more money, and get a MECIR, or a NVFR, or do ATPLs or.....

<insert vomit emoji here>

[Ixixly]

Originally Posted by outnabout

Ixixly, I have never heard of a flying school telling a student who has financial resources that the student should consider another career.

I have sat in the RHS of a few CPLs who definitely should have been told their chosen career should not involve aviation.

There are some flying schools that the boss will not hire from for these reasons.

It should also be a criminal offence for flying schools to tell young hopefuls that "of course" they will walk into a job on graduation..but just to help them get a competitive edge, they need to spend a bit more money, and get a MECIR, or a NVFR, or do ATPLs or.....

<insert vomit emoji here>

Or even worse, referring them onto someone that tutors on Airline Aptitude Tests.

I've been in Flight Training Schools where Staff have had to have this conversation with Students, it's very rare (I can only count the times on 1 hand but at the same time I haven't been involved in Training for any long period of time) and usually comes down to letting them know if they want to continue then the School will do it's best but it's likely it's going to cost them a lot more because of repeats etc... and the decision is ultimately on the Student.

One of the major reasons the Schools should be encouraged to do this more often applies more to those involved with VET-FEE/HECS as they have to be sending in reports to their relevant Education Org on pass rates etc... and having low rates would open them up to being audited which is never pleasant. I believe New Zealand has become more diligent in their initial intake testing over the last few years as I've seen a number of posts with Students sweating an interview and I think this was as a result of stricter limits on numbers and more oversight on pass rates. I've never personally seen a situation where they've been so dangerous that the School has downright said no but I have personally been involved in putting the foot down on Pilots that have worked for me and telling the Boss they're not stepping foot back in an Aircraft that is our/my responsibility and they should have been drummed out in training. It was definitely a black mark on their training org for future hires if it came down to looking for a reason to differentiate new hires.

[Squawk7700]

For those that been eagerly awaiting the news...

A mere $33 million to be paid back to students.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...dcc5a3191bb187