Box Hill TAFE drops Aviation Diploma
My bad, it was 2007. https://www.theage.com.au/national/l...14-ge6i9e.html
There was one down on the golf course in June 2019 too. RAA registered Jabiru
Plane down on the Capital golf course near Moorabbin
Plane down on the Capital golf course near Moorabbin
Crikey, you’re not wrong! I just had a semi-decent read and it sounds very bad and un-defendable, based solely on my visits to the courtroom and episodes of Judge Judy.
Seems they are really kicking up a stink about being induced to join RAAus which is interesting because many in their fleet were RAAus registered. Unqualified instructors doesn’t sound too flash either, if proven.
Oh well, innocent until proven guilty I guess!
Seems they are really kicking up a stink about being induced to join RAAus which is interesting because many in their fleet were RAAus registered. Unqualified instructors doesn’t sound too flash either, if proven.
Oh well, innocent until proven guilty I guess!
“Gordon Legal principal Rachel Jones said out of the 250 students who have registered interest in the class action, she was aware of only five who have obtained their commercial pilot licences and three had studied at other institutions.”
I find these numbers rather disturbing...
I’m a bit out of the loop with what happens at the large flight schools, but are these statistics similar for other flight schools? I’m assuming a large proportion of the students would be on these government training loans (HECS/FEE-HELP whatever they call it)? I think the government really needs to take a closer look at these government loans and the training organisations who are receiving taxpayer money.
I just had a quick look and I don't watch Judge Judy so please help - there was a lot of fluff there. Even rudimentary training records would dispense with many of those issues. As for the RPC shortcut and standards - CASA accepts it as equal. Not enough aeroplanes - really? What are the issues that the lawyers will really get their teeth into?
I just had a quick look and I don't watch Judge Judy so please help - there was a lot of fluff there. Even rudimentary training records would dispense with many of those issues. As for the RPC shortcut and standards - CASA accepts it as equal. Not enough aeroplanes - really? What are the issues that the lawyers will really get their teeth into?
I have a feeling that the negligence, unqualified instructors etc... is just a bit of "Filler" to give the Lawsuit some more teeth, these sorts of things wouldn't be handled in a Court Case but by CASA themselves and if CASA were clearly not doing their job then I'd suspect they'd find themselves as a Party to this claim as well. This will come down to Money and the practices they used to extract that money from these Students without delivering sufficient value. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of their Students were found to have hit the limit of the money provided under their Government funding and almost always falling short of Standards then being promised they could get there "If they just spent a little bit more". This is a practice I believe was already brought to light and this Lawsuit will be the mechanism by which they claw that money back and rightfully so IMHO.
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“Gordon Legal principal Rachel Jones said out of the 250 students who have registered interest in the class action, she was aware of only five who have obtained their commercial pilot licences and three had studied at other institutions.”
I find these numbers rather disturbing...
I find these numbers rather disturbing...
The lawyer is making out the school has only had 5 graduates, which is totally false. Over 65 CPL graduates have completed the Box Hill diploma and passed CPL flight tests.
A big portion of the 200+ registered by Gordon have only studied at Soar/Box Hill for less than 2 years - which means they would never have completed the course at this point anyway. Plenty more graduates at both campuses are very close to completing their CPL.
Soar/BHI’s biggest mistake is signing up people who never had the aptitude or attitude to study their way their way to a CPL - thinking they can rock up to 2 x 3 hour classes each week, and be presented with a CPL at the end of the 2 years regardless of their effort.
No Squawk, it isn’t “innocent until proven guilty”. That standard applies to criminal cases. This is a civil case and from memory, the standard is “on the balance of probabilities”.
Djpil and Squawk, IANAL, but my educated guess (having copped a commercial lawsuit years ago) is that the case will revolve around two allegations; that SOAR and Box Hill were knowingly and deliberately not acting “in good faith” in discharging their responsibilities under the contracts, and secondly, the training provided was knowingly sub standard and not fit for purpose.
The key to this is the question of “good faith” (there are various levels of good faith right up to absolute good faith) which is a legal requirement for a contract to be binding - both parties need to act in good faith, in other words, that they both intend to the best of their abilities to honestly and completely deliver their side of the bargain. That includes a requirement that both parties must trust each other and deal honestly with each other.
I suggest that if half of what the students allege is true, they will have little trouble proving on the balance of probabilities that Box Hill and Soar were not acting in good faith.
‘’My guess is that Box Hill will settle out of court. Otherwise all their courses will be tarred with the same brush.
Lawyers please correct me.
Djpil and Squawk, IANAL, but my educated guess (having copped a commercial lawsuit years ago) is that the case will revolve around two allegations; that SOAR and Box Hill were knowingly and deliberately not acting “in good faith” in discharging their responsibilities under the contracts, and secondly, the training provided was knowingly sub standard and not fit for purpose.
The key to this is the question of “good faith” (there are various levels of good faith right up to absolute good faith) which is a legal requirement for a contract to be binding - both parties need to act in good faith, in other words, that they both intend to the best of their abilities to honestly and completely deliver their side of the bargain. That includes a requirement that both parties must trust each other and deal honestly with each other.
I suggest that if half of what the students allege is true, they will have little trouble proving on the balance of probabilities that Box Hill and Soar were not acting in good faith.
‘’My guess is that Box Hill will settle out of court. Otherwise all their courses will be tarred with the same brush.
Lawyers please correct me.
You’d be an entertaining field contact for your average plod to come across down the street with your Jedi mind tricks and all.
Yes Squawk, but I wouldn’t dare play “jedi mind tricks” on a police officer. That is a very fast way to get a smack in the mouth. In any case I know SFA about criminal law, something that is regularly pointed out to me by my police and judicial acquaintances.
My experience is that universities are gutless when it comes to lawsuits. Box Hill will probably settle. The pass rate for the students says it all. Unless the students were sub human their pass rates should be the same average as other schools. After all, flying isn’t rocket science is it? They could teach me to fly, and you.
My experience is that universities are gutless when it comes to lawsuits. Box Hill will probably settle. The pass rate for the students says it all. Unless the students were sub human their pass rates should be the same average as other schools. After all, flying isn’t rocket science is it? They could teach me to fly, and you.
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[/Soar/BHI’s biggest mistake is signing up people who never had the aptitude or attitude to study their way their way to a CPL - thinking they can rock up to 2 x 3 hour classes each week, and be presented with a CPL at the end of the 2 years regardless of their effort.]
This point is quite valid and I think it has been raised before that CASA are not interested in whether the candidate takes 150 or 300 hours to pass the flight test, as long as they meet the standard. The problem is the expectation of the students, that they will be a commercial pilot after XXX hours of flight training.
Regarding the schools with 100% success rates. CPL candidates are carefully screened academically and given flight assessments before being accepted into the CPL course. Their parents are often involved in the final decision making and the financial commitment is explained so that it is clearly understood by all. Where a 100% pass rate is achieved, those candidates did not always pass on first go and often resit exams and/or flight tests. I understand that there is a difference between overseas and local students with the former blitzing the theory exams while Australian students often have a better affinity with physical control of the aircraft.
This point is quite valid and I think it has been raised before that CASA are not interested in whether the candidate takes 150 or 300 hours to pass the flight test, as long as they meet the standard. The problem is the expectation of the students, that they will be a commercial pilot after XXX hours of flight training.
Regarding the schools with 100% success rates. CPL candidates are carefully screened academically and given flight assessments before being accepted into the CPL course. Their parents are often involved in the final decision making and the financial commitment is explained so that it is clearly understood by all. Where a 100% pass rate is achieved, those candidates did not always pass on first go and often resit exams and/or flight tests. I understand that there is a difference between overseas and local students with the former blitzing the theory exams while Australian students often have a better affinity with physical control of the aircraft.
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