I want to be a pilot: please change my mind!
Im not goign tot ry change your mind, im going to say do it. if you dont like it, find something else to do. At least you would then know that its not right rather than always wodnering why you didnt try.
Having done that about 7 years ago, I would say start with a PPL. Figure out if flying is the thing that captivates you, or if it's the act of observing flight that does it for you. (No shame if it's the second one!)
If after you've got your PPL you're still excited to go flying, then work on your CPL - buying a plane at that point may not be a terrible idea - and start researching what you want to do next. Instructing? Charter? BizJets? Corporate? Airline? Every one of those - other than getting to fly a plane - is basically a different career path. See above as to what happens when you pick poorly (and, unlike with many jobs, once you're in one, the opportunity cost of job hunting is exceedingly high - except maybe instructing, as it seems to be the pipeline into many jobs now)
I was 27 when I left a well-paying, but soul-crushing, job. Through doing a road trip to get my first job, to finding out what a "**** operator" is first-hand, to getting laid off and doing odd jobs for a year while doing yet another cross-country road trip, to getting a 'round-the-clock medevac job, to moving to Australia for love and marriage, to doing odd jobs while converting my license for a year, to job hunting for a job here (just to realize I might have to start at the bottom again)... I've had lots of ups and downs in aviation, but one thing I haven't had was regret of the choice to get into it.
That said, everyone is different. If the above sounds bad to you (and, to be honest, it's not what I thought aviation was going to be), and you decide not to get into it... There's no shame in that either. You've got a career you enjoy, and a hobby you love. That's not a bad place to be!
Hopefully, that makes your decision a bit harder!
PS: While I'm not claiming everyone's experience will be as trying as mine... I'm also not claiming to know what your luck is like. Clearly, mine is lousy, so I try not to rely on it!
If after you've got your PPL you're still excited to go flying, then work on your CPL - buying a plane at that point may not be a terrible idea - and start researching what you want to do next. Instructing? Charter? BizJets? Corporate? Airline? Every one of those - other than getting to fly a plane - is basically a different career path. See above as to what happens when you pick poorly (and, unlike with many jobs, once you're in one, the opportunity cost of job hunting is exceedingly high - except maybe instructing, as it seems to be the pipeline into many jobs now)
I was 27 when I left a well-paying, but soul-crushing, job. Through doing a road trip to get my first job, to finding out what a "**** operator" is first-hand, to getting laid off and doing odd jobs for a year while doing yet another cross-country road trip, to getting a 'round-the-clock medevac job, to moving to Australia for love and marriage, to doing odd jobs while converting my license for a year, to job hunting for a job here (just to realize I might have to start at the bottom again)... I've had lots of ups and downs in aviation, but one thing I haven't had was regret of the choice to get into it.
That said, everyone is different. If the above sounds bad to you (and, to be honest, it's not what I thought aviation was going to be), and you decide not to get into it... There's no shame in that either. You've got a career you enjoy, and a hobby you love. That's not a bad place to be!
Hopefully, that makes your decision a bit harder!
PS: While I'm not claiming everyone's experience will be as trying as mine... I'm also not claiming to know what your luck is like. Clearly, mine is lousy, so I try not to rely on it!
Last edited by AlphaVictorFoxtrot; 6th Jan 2020 at 12:36.
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Get your PPL first and go from there, you’ll have a better idea of your desires once you’re flying for leisure as pilot in command.
I was in a similar situation to yourself 2 years ago, I did the above and am now considering CPL.
I was in a similar situation to yourself 2 years ago, I did the above and am now considering CPL.
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Good friend of mine was a linesman for a power company. Secure job, not bad pay but something was missing. He took up flying, I used to join him on nav exercises. We had some great spur of the moment jaunts.
Fast forward 30 years, he's a senior check and training captain on 787's. He does medium haul trips to locations he enjoys.
My brother was at a loose end. I encouraged him to pursue his interest in aviation. 30 years later he's had a varied and interesting career. Now flies B777's.
Both are very happy with their lot and have no regrets.
Give it a go, if it doesn't work out nothing lost. Better than 20 years down the track thinking I wish I had..
:-)
Fast forward 30 years, he's a senior check and training captain on 787's. He does medium haul trips to locations he enjoys.
My brother was at a loose end. I encouraged him to pursue his interest in aviation. 30 years later he's had a varied and interesting career. Now flies B777's.
Both are very happy with their lot and have no regrets.
Give it a go, if it doesn't work out nothing lost. Better than 20 years down the track thinking I wish I had..
:-)
If your ultimate desire is to have a career as a professional pilot, I think the advice of “get a real job and fly privately on the side for fun” usually isn’t sufficient enough to quell that desire.
I personally think the motivations, achievements and fufillments gained through professional flying aren’t the ones that will be solely satisfied via private flying. And vice versa, there are some who will not be satisfied as professional pilots and would be better suited to restricting their flying to private aviation only.
It’s your task to discover if it’s professional or private aviation that you aspire to, and if it is a career as a professional that you are attracted to then just limiting your goals to private aviation will leave you unsatisfied.
I’m not going to talk you out of being a pilot, if you discover that it is your desire to be a professional pilot then go for it.
I personally think the motivations, achievements and fufillments gained through professional flying aren’t the ones that will be solely satisfied via private flying. And vice versa, there are some who will not be satisfied as professional pilots and would be better suited to restricting their flying to private aviation only.
It’s your task to discover if it’s professional or private aviation that you aspire to, and if it is a career as a professional that you are attracted to then just limiting your goals to private aviation will leave you unsatisfied.
I’m not going to talk you out of being a pilot, if you discover that it is your desire to be a professional pilot then go for it.
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You seem to have a terrific job.
Owning an aircraft is not that expensive.
I have owned 3 aircraft and regard myself as a plodder.
I found it difficult to study and pass the ATPL subjects, and went down the private ownership path. I still wish I was up front of an Airliner, but such is life.
If you feel you can pass the medicals and pass the ATPL subjects without too much stress then go for it.
However aircraft ownership is very satisfying, particularly if you have something a little different.
A CPL with Instructor rating would maybe get you some weekend work to satisfy your desire to fly. Best of luck.
Owning an aircraft is not that expensive.
I have owned 3 aircraft and regard myself as a plodder.
I found it difficult to study and pass the ATPL subjects, and went down the private ownership path. I still wish I was up front of an Airliner, but such is life.
If you feel you can pass the medicals and pass the ATPL subjects without too much stress then go for it.
However aircraft ownership is very satisfying, particularly if you have something a little different.
A CPL with Instructor rating would maybe get you some weekend work to satisfy your desire to fly. Best of luck.
I guess what I'm looking for is current/former pilots to "talk me out of it". If you had to start over today in your thirties leaving a good career behind, please tell me why you would not recommend it. Or if you've left your pilot career for another one. It would really help.
I wish there were options to travel on the jump seats... But I suppose I was born 20 years too late for this.
I wish there were options to travel on the jump seats... But I suppose I was born 20 years too late for this.
In the new job I was looked after and was with people I loved working with doing interesting stuff but... sitting behind a desk I gradually felt more and more unhappy as years went by. I tried flying part time but too much to do 2 jobs then as a "hobby" for a while but both hated having to pay for something I was once paid to do and felt frustrated because I knew my skills were losing their edge compared to when I was flying full time.
The desk job helped pay off a mortgage though but after a number of years I started to hate the job, despite the way I was looked after and rewarded.
I have now come full circle and am now back exactly where I was, flying again (for the same company I used to fly with) and am much happier.
Financially not as good, less secure long term but happier.
Depends on what you want in life and how much of an aviation tragic you really are (or discover yourself to be). How important is security and money to you? Do you have people dependent on you? Are you willing to take a risk? Worth trying a flying lesson or two just to see.
NB there are other options than just airline pilot (not as well paid usually - sometimes poorly paid in fact but sometimes very rewarding in other ways).
it is so satisfying to conduct a flight in an A320/321/330.
If you want to you will, if you don't you won't. Ask yourself not others. And if you make the correct decision you will be happy for life and if you don't you will be miserable.
Your call mate. Simple.
And if you end up happy, correct call. Go with your gut.
Your call mate. Simple.
And if you end up happy, correct call. Go with your gut.
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I absolutely love flying and want to pursue a career in piloting. The problem is that I’ve heard being away for so long and constantly takes a massive toll on family and relationships. Is this really true or has it been over reacted? What about flying domestic? Is it really as bad as it’s made out to be? Thanks!
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Spot on OvertHawk
I have been flying for 37 years and am about to quit altogether. I used to love my job but not anymore.
What OvertHawk said is unfortunately correct.
I would recommend you stay where you are.
If you don't want to spend money for a CPL, there is always ultralight fun, cheap and without any of the hassle.
But the decision is yours and yours only.
Have fun
What OvertHawk said is unfortunately correct.
I would recommend you stay where you are.
If you don't want to spend money for a CPL, there is always ultralight fun, cheap and without any of the hassle.
But the decision is yours and yours only.
Have fun
There are a lot of factors here.
I love aviation, I've been in it since i was 16 and have been a pilot for 20 plus years.
I don't really enjoy my job anymore (and mine is so much better than many)... I still love aviation, but doing it for a living with the increasing administration and politics (and reality) can very quickly blunt that enjoyment.
If you want to be an airline pilot to pursue your love and passion for aviation - then think twice!
Public transport flying is now (probably rightly) a very prescriptive occupation. yes it has many challenges but probably not the ones you're looking for.
If you're imagining golden sunrises, exciting routes and the joy of flight then consider:
Getting up at 04:00; arguing with dispatchers; carrying a five figure debt into the first ten years of your career (at least); having your roster written in pencil and pushed to the limit by software designed to work you to exhaustion; dealing with passengers who are at best indifferent and consider you little more than a bus driver through to at worst aggressive and rude; Getting paid a decidedly average salary for the first decade of your career ( don't forget the debt too!). Getting to "fly" the aeroplane for 5 minutes a sector (if it's your sector)... That's just a few of the issues.
Seriously - I love aviation and i like the money I'm now (after twenty years) getting paid. Would i do it again? - that's an artificial question because no-one has hindsight. I came into it young without a strong career - i had little to lose and much to gain.
If you're asking "should I give up a strong career that I really like, working for a good company in order to start from scratch in aviation?" I would reply - "Are you off your rocker?!?!'
Keep the career stability, get a PPL and go and fly a Tiger Moth at the weekends.
Keep your home life, the potential to have a life outside work that can be predicated beyond 48 hours (and which you will be awake for most of).
It genuinely pains me to write this (and my 26 year old self would be horrified) but you're proposing giving up an awful lot for something which I don't think really exists as you perceive or hope it does.
PM me if you wish to ask more speciifics.
All the best - enjoy your flying!
OH
I love aviation, I've been in it since i was 16 and have been a pilot for 20 plus years.
I don't really enjoy my job anymore (and mine is so much better than many)... I still love aviation, but doing it for a living with the increasing administration and politics (and reality) can very quickly blunt that enjoyment.
If you want to be an airline pilot to pursue your love and passion for aviation - then think twice!
Public transport flying is now (probably rightly) a very prescriptive occupation. yes it has many challenges but probably not the ones you're looking for.
If you're imagining golden sunrises, exciting routes and the joy of flight then consider:
Getting up at 04:00; arguing with dispatchers; carrying a five figure debt into the first ten years of your career (at least); having your roster written in pencil and pushed to the limit by software designed to work you to exhaustion; dealing with passengers who are at best indifferent and consider you little more than a bus driver through to at worst aggressive and rude; Getting paid a decidedly average salary for the first decade of your career ( don't forget the debt too!). Getting to "fly" the aeroplane for 5 minutes a sector (if it's your sector)... That's just a few of the issues.
Seriously - I love aviation and i like the money I'm now (after twenty years) getting paid. Would i do it again? - that's an artificial question because no-one has hindsight. I came into it young without a strong career - i had little to lose and much to gain.
If you're asking "should I give up a strong career that I really like, working for a good company in order to start from scratch in aviation?" I would reply - "Are you off your rocker?!?!'
Keep the career stability, get a PPL and go and fly a Tiger Moth at the weekends.
Keep your home life, the potential to have a life outside work that can be predicated beyond 48 hours (and which you will be awake for most of).
It genuinely pains me to write this (and my 26 year old self would be horrified) but you're proposing giving up an awful lot for something which I don't think really exists as you perceive or hope it does.
PM me if you wish to ask more speciifics.
All the best - enjoy your flying!
OH
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First of all, get yourself a CPL initial medical. If that all goes well,, buy yourself a common trainer like a IFR C172. Find a school you feel fits you and pay for the instructors to teach you in your own aircraft. Get your PPL, do your night rating, do your instrument rating. Do some trips away over weekends and holidays touring around. You will end up over two years or so having the experience and exams for a CPL.
You should enjoy your day job better as you will look forward to the flying, you should also enjoy the flying as you don’t have the stress of funding.
You may have a ball, you might not. You will get to see the industry and Australia from a different perspective. You might also hate it as the career brochure you see now may not reflect the reality you experience. Flying is no different from your current industry, a lot of people who start off and get qualified do not end up working in industry.
You should enjoy your day job better as you will look forward to the flying, you should also enjoy the flying as you don’t have the stress of funding.
You may have a ball, you might not. You will get to see the industry and Australia from a different perspective. You might also hate it as the career brochure you see now may not reflect the reality you experience. Flying is no different from your current industry, a lot of people who start off and get qualified do not end up working in industry.
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I just past 41 yrs of professional flying. Forty seven years in total. It's changed but I'd do it again in a a heart beat but I'm in the U.S. Different countries would have different circumstances. People have given up 777 Captain jobs overseas to return to the U.S. to be 737 FO's. So it's not just the quality of the seat you're sitting in that matters.
People shouldn't think for a second that they'll rapidly achieve the level of success, income, stability, or seniority that long time pilots have. It takes years and years, often decades, to achieve the better level of quality of work life. That's the unknown that each person has to experience themselves to judge if it's worth it. How much income will you forgo to achieve a job satisfaction that you won't know until it's years later? recall reading a new CFI complaining about his job after 6 months and asking if there was some special job that someone could point out to him so that he could rapidly advance to a jet job with the highest pay and most days off. Like tens of thousands of guys wouldn't be telling their buddies about that job but were keeping it quiet waiting to reward some total stranger the job opportunity. At least in the U.S. the opportunity for a decent job, even while you're 'cutting your teeth', has never been better. Other countries will have different career opportunities and payoffs.
People shouldn't think for a second that they'll rapidly achieve the level of success, income, stability, or seniority that long time pilots have. It takes years and years, often decades, to achieve the better level of quality of work life. That's the unknown that each person has to experience themselves to judge if it's worth it. How much income will you forgo to achieve a job satisfaction that you won't know until it's years later? recall reading a new CFI complaining about his job after 6 months and asking if there was some special job that someone could point out to him so that he could rapidly advance to a jet job with the highest pay and most days off. Like tens of thousands of guys wouldn't be telling their buddies about that job but were keeping it quiet waiting to reward some total stranger the job opportunity. At least in the U.S. the opportunity for a decent job, even while you're 'cutting your teeth', has never been better. Other countries will have different career opportunities and payoffs.
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You have to love flying.
I wanted to fly from a young age. I used the money from my first week's pay, actually first month to book my first flying lesson. A week's pay wouldn't cover it. On the day I caught two buses and then walked several miles to the flying club where I finally took my first flying lesson. Was I enthusiastic? Absolutely.
I was hooked. After we landed I was dizzy from the effects of the flight and the excitement. After that I dedicated all my money and time to my dream.
But I gather you haven't even had a flying lesson? I see you're in love with aviation but for the pilot it's all about the flying. It's the compensation for putting up with all the BS as laid out above.
You should at least take some lessons. Aim to go solo. No need to commit to anything. If you find it's a passion and you love to fly. Nothing will stop you.
If not well you tried and made a rational decision that it isn't a sensible career. Then you've only lost a few dollars.
I've come to believe that one of the reasons there are so few female pilots is that women are far more likely to take a cold hard look at the realities. I think your post is an example of that.
But I won't try to talk you out of it. Many pilots wouldn't do anything else and some come to hate it. So you need to get it out of your system. Dip your toes and see what happens. I also wouldn't discount a career in aviation. Lots of opportunities there for the ambitious.
As for me? Fell out of love with flying eventually. Recently a friend dragged to Africa to do some bush flying in his new aeroplane. I wasn't nervous I was bored. He offered me a chance to get checked out in it. I said no.
My 18 year self would be horrified. Not that flying wasn't fun. One day while flying skydivers there was the usual banter during the climb between the tandem instructors and me. One customer spoke out . 'You guys' he said 'have the best job in the world.' For one moment I suppose we did.
I wanted to fly from a young age. I used the money from my first week's pay, actually first month to book my first flying lesson. A week's pay wouldn't cover it. On the day I caught two buses and then walked several miles to the flying club where I finally took my first flying lesson. Was I enthusiastic? Absolutely.
I was hooked. After we landed I was dizzy from the effects of the flight and the excitement. After that I dedicated all my money and time to my dream.
But I gather you haven't even had a flying lesson? I see you're in love with aviation but for the pilot it's all about the flying. It's the compensation for putting up with all the BS as laid out above.
You should at least take some lessons. Aim to go solo. No need to commit to anything. If you find it's a passion and you love to fly. Nothing will stop you.
If not well you tried and made a rational decision that it isn't a sensible career. Then you've only lost a few dollars.
I've come to believe that one of the reasons there are so few female pilots is that women are far more likely to take a cold hard look at the realities. I think your post is an example of that.
But I won't try to talk you out of it. Many pilots wouldn't do anything else and some come to hate it. So you need to get it out of your system. Dip your toes and see what happens. I also wouldn't discount a career in aviation. Lots of opportunities there for the ambitious.
As for me? Fell out of love with flying eventually. Recently a friend dragged to Africa to do some bush flying in his new aeroplane. I wasn't nervous I was bored. He offered me a chance to get checked out in it. I said no.
My 18 year self would be horrified. Not that flying wasn't fun. One day while flying skydivers there was the usual banter during the climb between the tandem instructors and me. One customer spoke out . 'You guys' he said 'have the best job in the world.' For one moment I suppose we did.
Last edited by Steepclimb; 6th Jan 2020 at 18:54.
I gave up flying for a career more than a decade ago for a career driving trains. I've been doing that for 14 years come this Thursday and can't imagine doing anything else. I still get paid to look out a window (Contrary to what my Yr 11 English Teacher said would never happen...) I do work with some deadset morons, but also some top-notch crew whose numbers fortunately outweigh said morons, I've been able to pay off my house, buy a new 4wd as well as build an RV-9 that I fly for fun with my young bloke - and I'm still under 40!
I'm fortunate to have been able to transition to a part-time roster so I only effectively work 107 days a year yet still earn over $100K but get so much more time with the family than I would have ever got with a flying job - but with the RV I can still fly where I want, when I want. If that is 500' down Victor 1 past Sydney at 170 knots, or taking Mini-Me to Temora to see the Spitfire fly, I can. I don't have to deal with dispatchers, passengers or "security". Flying is supposed to be fun and if you make a career out of a hobby, that can wear off all too quickly - I've seen it dozens of times in Rail. "I wanna drive trains..." says the train buff, yet after a year of shiftwork suddenly the appeal has worn off and they are gone. Don't make that mistake if you are in a good career you enjoy already. Fly for fun and enjoy it.
I fly as SLF regularly for work and have occasionally talked to the tech crew when they appear for a potty break, and while all have said they still enjoy what they do, almost universally, they have said they would never do it again were they to have their time over. For the senior Captains, it's typically because flying today "isn't what it used to be", for the FO's and junior Captain's, time away from their family, constant sim checks, the possibility of the airline going under, lack of hand-flying opportunities lest they upset the QAR and get a please explain and sometimes even a perceived lack of progression all got a mention.
I'm fortunate to have been able to transition to a part-time roster so I only effectively work 107 days a year yet still earn over $100K but get so much more time with the family than I would have ever got with a flying job - but with the RV I can still fly where I want, when I want. If that is 500' down Victor 1 past Sydney at 170 knots, or taking Mini-Me to Temora to see the Spitfire fly, I can. I don't have to deal with dispatchers, passengers or "security". Flying is supposed to be fun and if you make a career out of a hobby, that can wear off all too quickly - I've seen it dozens of times in Rail. "I wanna drive trains..." says the train buff, yet after a year of shiftwork suddenly the appeal has worn off and they are gone. Don't make that mistake if you are in a good career you enjoy already. Fly for fun and enjoy it.
I fly as SLF regularly for work and have occasionally talked to the tech crew when they appear for a potty break, and while all have said they still enjoy what they do, almost universally, they have said they would never do it again were they to have their time over. For the senior Captains, it's typically because flying today "isn't what it used to be", for the FO's and junior Captain's, time away from their family, constant sim checks, the possibility of the airline going under, lack of hand-flying opportunities lest they upset the QAR and get a please explain and sometimes even a perceived lack of progression all got a mention.