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Light plane flips at Moorabbin airport, trapping pilot

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Light plane flips at Moorabbin airport, trapping pilot

Old 21st Dec 2019, 04:42
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 59
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I canít find go-arounds in the RAAus RPC syllabus.
roundsounds is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2019, 20:04
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Then another 5 knots if it's turbulent. And it's it's turbulent, don't use full flap, add another 5 knots for that. And if there's a crosswind, add 5 knots for that. And if it's gusting, don't forget to add half the gust factor!! All of that should quite comfortably bring in a 172 at 90 knots over the fence
Australian Aviation at it's finest.
The name is Porter is offline  
Old 21st Dec 2019, 21:19
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Qatar
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Cool

Also, don't forget to take away the number you first thought of......

Might be okay for jet aircraft with 140 kt approach speeds, but adding 5 kt multiples here and there on aircraft with very low approach speeds can be fraught with danger.
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Old 21st Dec 2019, 22:01
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Melbourne
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In case it wasn't bleedingly obvious, that was a piss take.

Unfortunately however it is indicative of the mentality of some.
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 05:07
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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junior.VH-LFA is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2020, 05:19
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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C h e c k m a t e.
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 07:06
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
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No!!! Really??? Say it isn't so???

I wonder who else will appear on the ASQA website tomorrow???

Ohhhh, IBAC, what have you to say?

Shit's getting real now.

cnuts in aviation getting what's coming to them???

Say it isn't so ;-)





The name is Porter is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2020, 07:16
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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This is poetry in motion.
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 07:20
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Melbourne
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Well, this might as well get it's own thread
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 09:24
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sydney Harbour
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Porter you were spot on!

I hope the REAL reasons for this are made public.

I feel for the Staff and Students.
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Old 7th Jan 2020, 09:58
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I hope the REAL reasons for this are made public.
Dangly, They will be! This is only the start. You can expect the newest member of a certain list to be on a new list, a court list ;-)

There are other frauds on the list now, one at a time.
The name is Porter is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2020, 11:26
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
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Meanwhile any news of the poor student who was injured?
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Old 5th May 2021, 08:40
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Report out. Amazing. https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/577965...-071-final.pdf

What the ATSB found

The ATSB found that the pilot commenced a go‑around at low level when the aircraft deviated from the runway centreline in crosswind conditions. During the go‑around, the aircraft aerodynamically stalled and commenced a spin.

It was also identified that the student pilot did not have the necessary qualifications and skills to safely operate the Bristell solo.

Finally, the required Soar Aviation solo flight dispatch procedures were not followed. As a result, it was not identified that the student pilot was not authorised for, nor met the required competencies, to conduct the flight.
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Old 5th May 2021, 09:23
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: YSBK
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Pretty hard to blame the school when a bloke who isnít qualified to fly and is too thick to realise it just grabs the keys and heads off for a burn
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Old 5th May 2021, 10:10
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by ysbkpilot View Post
Pretty hard to blame the school when a bloke who isn’t qualified to fly and is too thick to realise it just grabs the keys and heads off for a burn
Pretty easy to lay a large chunk of blame on them, why was it so easy for any Student to grab the keys and go for a burn? This wasn't some early morning flight before any admin or instructors were around to monitor. How was he able to book this into their system? Why did he mention in the report that he was told "You're good to go" by his Instructor? Why was it not clearly stated from the previous debrief that he was not ready for solo as they "don't usually say that, it is clear from the debrief"? Why did he continue even though he felt uncomfortable and didn't feel he could bring this to an instructor?
Ixixly is offline  
Old 5th May 2021, 12:36
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Melbourne
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Might be able to shed some light on this - I passed my CPL there early 2020...

The keys have always been in the aircraft folder, was like this since day dot. Had never heard any issues prior to this one of other students grabbing an aircraft without permission (although I once grabbed YWM instead of YWN and we didnít pick up on it until after the flight).

Scuttlebutt at the time is scheduling made a human error and swapped him out from a Vixen to a Bristell while working on the schedules.

In terms of progression, I was given a flight schedule at the start of my CPL which did have 3 famil flights to be completed. Majority of my debriefs (I have some copies still) usually end with ďnext flight xxxĒ. However was pretty aware of the next flight anyway.

The general process for getting ready and being signed out was - Grab folder (had keys, MR, dipstick) go and preflight plane. Either before or after this do all your flight planning, then fill out necessary paperwork (you had to fill out a risk matrix for each solo, regardless of where you were in the syllabus). Once thatís all done you have to grab an instructor and depending on the matrix you grabbed a grade 1/2/3 and they checked. Licence, Medical, MR, planning, ASIC, Matrix, W&B, your hours on type (cant remember if anything else). Then once they were happy they signed the matrix and then despatched you on the system. Post flight you also needed to see an instructor to discuss any issues.

From my perspective I never had an issue speaking up to someone and at that stage the chief instructor was very approachable.

Apologise for any poor formatting/grammar. On my phone typing this!
Framcicles is offline  
Old 5th May 2021, 12:56
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Iím impressed that you were one of the lucky ones that actually got a CPL from there!
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Old 5th May 2021, 14:50
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I felt the ATSB report lacked investigative depth. It was also damned annoying trying to read the politically correct "they or their" instead of "he". "He" being the student of course. Nothing worse than jarring grammar.

One way or another the student botched the very low altitude go around. It begged the question had he ever had the manoeuvre demonstrated to him? Why did he fail to counter the yaw and pitch up associated with a full power low energy go-around in the Bristell? There was nothing in the report that indicated the manufacturer's recommended go-around procedure compared with the procedure the student was taught to use.

Was there much difference (if any) between the Bristell arcraft manufacturer's recommended go-around procedure and the go-around procedure for the previous type he had been flying?

Did the investigator ask each SOAR instructor what procedure they taught ? You can bet some adhere to the manufacturer's published procedure while others have their own personal ideas. If there was no such advice in the POH why didn't CASA airworthiness notice this when the Bristell was approved for student training?

Seems to me the ATSB report missed the opportunity to check the standardisation of go-around procedures by simply asking all the flying school students at Soar and not just a sample. Understandably, much of the ATSB report was about administrative failings of SOAR operations. It is just a pity that more attention was not paid to the actual aircraft handling side of the accident.

A low altitude low energy go-around can be a demanding manoeuvre in any aircraft. Particularly for a student pilot. Experience has shown few instructors are competent at teaching the manoeuvre. Moreover, inexperienced instructors can be quite apprehensive of demonstrating the sequence - if at all.

If, as claimed in the report, some instructors said the Bristell would drop a wing in the stall, then could this be an airworthiness issue? After all, there are certification rules that govern wing drop tolerances.

Even if little is learned from this accident, I would plead ATSB to trash its adherence to Public Service political correctness in future reports and use normal Queen's English grammar. It makes official reports easier to read.

Last edited by Centaurus; 5th May 2021 at 15:23.
Centaurus is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 00:48
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Originally Posted by Centaurus View Post
Did the investigator ask each SOAR instructor what procedure they taught ? You can bet some adhere to the manufacturer's published procedure while others have their own personal ideas. If there was no such advice in the POH why didn't CASA airworthiness notice this when the Bristell was approved for student training?.

Was thinking just that, the student was in the wrong but the main cause was the unsuccessful go around
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Old 6th May 2021, 02:42
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Melbourne
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Originally Posted by Centaurus View Post
Did the investigator ask each SOAR instructor what procedure they taught ? You can bet some adhere to the manufacturer's published procedure while others have their own personal ideas. If there was no such advice in the POH why didn't CASA airworthiness notice this when the Bristell was approved for student training?

Seems to me the ATSB report missed the opportunity to check the standardisation of go-around procedures by simply asking all the flying school students at Soar and not just a sample. Understandably, much of the ATSB report was about administrative failings of SOAR operations. It is just a pity that more attention was not paid to the actual aircraft handling side of the accident.
I cant comment on the Vixen, I was put on the Bristell from the start. However what I was taught is almost the same as the POH. I was taught - Full power, Pitch for 66, Trim as necessary (if you were trimmed for approach you really needed to trim ASAP, I could imagine this had an effect on the situation). Once speed was stable and clear of obstacles, remove first stage of flap, Pitch 66, Trim and same process once stable remove last stage of flaps (standard approach was 2 stages of flap).

POH is as follows;
Balked Landing (Go around) 1. Throttle - full power (max.5800 rpm) 2. Wing flaps - extend as needed 3. Trim - adjust as needed 4. Wing flaps - retract at height of 150 ft after reaching 120 km/h (65 KIAS) 5. Trim - adjust 6. Repeat circuit pattern and landing
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