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Private Flight To Be Banned.

Old 1st Dec 2019, 05:30
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you Sunfish and mikewil for the link.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 06:03
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
Actually that's a fair assumption of how the youth of today are trending. Another generation or three & the youngsters of tomorrow won't be coming from a family where someone flew. I have numerous nieces & nephews and they have many friends none of them as far as I know show any interest in flying.
I also have 3 offspring, all well & truly grown up none of them where the slightest bit interested in flying (thank Christ!). Us old codgers will just fade away:-(
Flying for leisure or professionally? I still think thereís a bit of interest in professional flying as a career in youth, maybe they have different expectations of a career compared to previous generations.

I was more thinking of a millennialís interest in flying for leisure/recreation. Once upon a time you could take a few mates for a weekend away in a light aircraft. Nowadays for a weekend away in a beaten up light aircraft thatís about 50 years old the hire rate alone could get you two weeks in SE Asia airfares, accomodation, food and spending money. What do you think the more cost savvy youth in times of higher debts and less job security will be attracted to?

No offence to those of advanced years, but aero and flying clubs seem to be mostly dominated by older generations. Younger people really donít want to spend their spare time amongst a much older crowd.

Itís got nothing to do with ďlazyĒ millennials, if anything I think millennials work longer and harder, itís just their attraction to recreational aviation is declining. It may be at a point where it canít be turned around and soon thereíll be no great interest in private flying anymore.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 12:32
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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No offence to those of advanced years, but aero and flying clubs seem to be mostly dominated by older generations. Younger people really donít want to spend their spare time amongst a much older crowd.
I don't blame them especially if the aero clubs are frequented by people like Sunfish.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 00:10
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Saw this post and thought of Sunfish and his conspiracy-theory nutter mates.

He has probably run out of people who are patient enough to listen to his crazed rants, so he posts them here for us to suffer.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 00:33
  #65 (permalink)  
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YPJT:
I would think it hard to single out aviation at the lower end of the scale without targeting all other forms of motorised recreation for the same reasons.
I”m sure the greens have all internal combustion engines in their sights. However there are less aeroplanes and pilots then there are speedboat owners, trail bike riders and motor racers. Hence my contention that we would be the easiest target, except for perhaps jet skis.

As for those who think I’m being fantastic, let me introduce you to our little friend, the Overton window....

The Overton window is the range of policies politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time.[1] It is also known as the window of discourse. The term is named after Joseph P. Overton, who stated that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within this range, rather than on politicians' individual preferences.[2]
[3] According to Overton, the window frames the range of policies that a politician can recommend without appearing too extreme to gain or keep public office given the climate of public opinion at that time.

.........Political commentator Joshua TreviŮo has postulated that the degrees of acceptance of public ideas are roughly:[7]
  • Unthinkable
  • Radical
  • Acceptable
  • Sensible
  • Popular
  • Policy.
According to Overton, policy starts out with the floating of an “unthinkable” idea that is gradually worked through stages by its supporters to become policy.

Australian examples: gun control, gay marriage, universal superannuation, relaxed liquor licensing laws, divorce, indefinite detention, etc., etc. Climate change emergency will no doubt spawn more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window


Last edited by Sunfish; 2nd Dec 2019 at 00:45.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 01:09
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
policy starts out with the floating of an ďunthinkableĒ idea that is gradually worked through stages by its supporters to become policy.

Australian examples: gun control, gay marriage, universal superannuation, relaxed liquor licensing laws, divorce, indefinite detention, etc., etc. Climate change emergency will no doubt spawn more.
I remember a noisy minority were very upset about gun control, but it was passed and the majority of the public accepted it. Because the vast majority of people donít use or have a direct need for a gun.

Very few people engage in private flying, and as Iíve pointed out factors like debt and lack of outcome on investment give young people good reason to not take up private aviation, so those numbers wonít be increasing. There wonít be any real support amongst politicians and the wider public to keep it going.

However there are alternatives. If you think a petrol powered light aircraftís days are numbered, then why not look at investing in this to develop this technology as a potential future solution for recreational aviation:

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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 01:20
  #67 (permalink)  
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The Greens will think of reasons to ban electric aircraft too. Give them time.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 01:30
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Saw this post and thought of Sunfish and his conspiracy-theory nutter mates. He has probably run out of people who are patient enough to listen to his crazed rants, so he posts them here for us to suffer.
The trouble is Kinnon, folk like you know so much that you won't debate. When someone has a differing opinion you simply resort to name calling. Must be good being correct on everything and all knowing.

Here in the Bob's world, I read stuff like this "The Elite Machine Behind Greta Thunberg" and I ponder and wonder, but I don't know!
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 01:45
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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The end of private flight was inevitable the moment the transgender lobby and feminists stopped schoolboys taking rifles on trams.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 01:47
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Very few people engage in private flying, and as I’ve pointed out factors like debt and lack of outcome on investment give young people good reason to not take up private aviation, so those numbers won’t be increasing. There won’t be any real support amongst politicians and the wider public to keep it going.

However there are alternatives. If you think a petrol powered light aircraft’s days are numbered, then why not look at investing in this to develop this technology as a potential future solution for recreational aviation:
So I'm confused. Do young people not fly because its expensive and the people associated with it are old and boring, or do they not fly because the mode of propulsion is associated with climate change? You actually negate one part of your argument with the other.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 02:24
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
So I'm confused. Do young people not fly because its expensive and the people associated with it are old and boring, or do they not fly because the mode of propulsion is associated with climate change? You actually negate one part of your argument with the other.
No I actually donít. There are advantages to marketing recreational electric aircraft to young people as an alternative to older generation aircraft.

Electric aircraft have the ability to increase the affordability of flying. Therefore would improve itís appeal to younger people.

And although a lot of people posting here would laugh at this, the truth is a lot of young people are quite concerned about the environment and their emissions, so promoting electric powered vehicles would appeal to them.

Now would electric aircraft draw the interest of a younger crowd? Notwithstanding those two points which I believe will attract more younger people, those associated with the development of this new aircraft are a bit younger than your typical GA enthusiast.

The creator of that YouTube channel is a young Australian in his 20ís, who creates videos about technology and innovation. He has a massive subscriber base and his view counts reach into the millions, and a great proportion of them younger people. And heís directly promoting an Australian Aviation startup. This could be the most exposure Australian GA has been given to a younger audience in a long time. People here should be fully supporting his efforts.

Better to support these young Australian entrepreneurs who are trying to promote cost effective and emissions friendly recreational aviation to young peoplewith their own innovative startup, than trying to lobby governments to legislate to keep their dying industry alive.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 03:01
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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the hire rate alone could get you two weeks in SE Asia airfares, accomodation, food and spending money. What do you think the more cost savvy youth in times of higher debts and less job security will be attracted to?
So why will the cost be significantly less for a newly developed electric aeroplane that will make the debt ridden millennials flock to small planes and revive a dying industry?
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 03:26
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
So why will the cost be significantly less for a newly developed electric aeroplane that will make the debt ridden millennials flock to small planes and revive a dying industry?
Did you watch the video? Obviously not.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 05:48
  #74 (permalink)  
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No offence to those of advanced years, but aero and flying clubs seem to be mostly dominated by older generations. Younger people really donít want to spend their spare time amongst a much older crowd.
But we did associate with the older (WW2 pilots) when we joined flying clubs and learned a great deal and just not about flying.

Itís got nothing to do with ďlazyĒ millennials, if anything I think millennials work longer and harder, itís just their attraction to recreational aviation is declining. It may be at a point where it canít be turned around and soon thereíll be no great interest in private flying anymore.
I don't think that millennials work harder and longer at work. It is all the fluff with "social media" that they work longer and harder at.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 06:12
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Originally Posted by 601 View Post
I don't think that millennials work harder and longer at work. It is all the fluff with "social media" that they work longer and harder at.
And people are scratching their heads on why millennials donít feel enthused about spending their down time at an aero club bar....
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 07:04
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking of younger generations, full credit should go to Tim Howes and the Bush Flying Down Under mob (check Facebook if youíre not across them) as they really are gathering momentum in the tail-dragger scene and getting more younger guys / gals interested in flying and pinning HP their aircraft. Thereís a lot of younger lads and ladies getting into this kind of flying. They really are showing that you donít have to fly a 50 year old Cessna bug smasher, but rather the huge array of STOL capable aircraft with big tyres and unlimited potential. Even an entry level Skyfox or Kitfox is capable of landing almost anywhere.

Watching the likes of Trent Palmer, Cory Robin and Mike Patey on YouTube will also show how vibrant the younger generation are in the US too. Youíd be mistaken for thinking it was some kind of religious cult. Some might argue that it is.

They are not only promoting flying, but cleaning up the outback and offering support to drought stricken farmers.

If youíre not across this scene, join up to Facebook and subscribe or subscribe to their YouTube channels. Mike Pateyís channel is no less than inspirational.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 07:11
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Did you watch the video? Obviously not.
Have you watched it all the way to the end? Their 70km cross country flight with 1 person on board in a $180,000 aeroplane required two hours of charging with a gennie loaded on the back of a diesel spewing ute! How is a plane load of millennials going to get to the coast now? One millenial in the aeroplane and 3 in the ute. What would Greta think? You are that blinded by by your climate change hysteria you can't even recognise when what you are promoting is garbage. I will ask the question again that you like to avoid, what is it you do for a living?
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 08:23
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Have you watched it all the way to the end? Their 70km cross country flight with 1 person on board in a $180,000 aeroplane required two hours of charging with a gennie loaded on the back of a diesel spewing ute! How is a plane load of millennials going to get to the coast now? One millenial in the aeroplane and 3 in the ute. What would Greta think? You are that blinded by by your climate change hysteria you can't even recognise when what you are promoting is garbage.
Kitty Hawk North Carolina, 1903.

ORVILLE: Sure was a great day Wilbur

WILBUR: Sure was Orville, with what we've accomplished here today who knows what the possibilities are in powered flight, with more research and development maybe one day we'll fly across oceans in near perfect safety...

BYSTANDER EXPOSING THE TRUTH: You two are absolute clowns, you've only flown 800 feet in your fabric and wire contraption, how are passengers ever going to get to cross oceans? You only climbed to 200 feet in height, how ludicrous must you be to think you flying machines will one day reach many miles into the sky. You still had to transport it here on a train didn't you? What sane person will choose to travel at 30 miles per hour on your flying thing when they can already travel across country on 100 mph trains? Even if you get these airborne contraptions to work who will pay a year's salary to fly across an oceans in them when they can travel in perfect safety for cheap on an ocean liner? You are that blinded by your "aeroplane" hysteria you can't even recognise when what you are promoting is garbage.

(And before any smart alecs chime in, yes I'm fully aware it took 50/60 years for transoceanic jet aircraft travel to be perfected. The use of electric aircraft for small scale aviation could take many years, or not many at all, primarily depending on how much R&D is done and how much investment is pumped in. Already in the last few years battery storage capacity has greatly expanded, as are gains made in solar efficiency. Of course full scale electric aircraft will not appear tomorrow, but there's plenty of exciting development being conducted in this field. In a few decades I'd say it'd be more common to see an Electro Aero in the sky, than Cessna 150/170 series derivatives.

I will ask the question again that you like to avoid, what is it you do for a living?
What I do for a living is exactly the same as you. Not a climate scientist. Difference being I don't think I know more than them on the topic of climate science.

Last edited by dr dre; 2nd Dec 2019 at 08:37.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 08:34
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Have you watched it all the way to the end? Their 70km cross country flight with 1 person on board in a $180,000 aeroplane required two hours of charging with a gennie loaded on the back of a diesel spewing ute! How is a plane load of millennials going to get to the coast now? One millenial in the aeroplane and 3 in the ute. What would Greta think? You are that blinded by by your climate change hysteria you can't even recognise when what you are promoting is garbage. I will ask the question again that you like to avoid, what is it you do for a living?
Give them some credit, that was almost their first ever flight and they were being ultra-careful with range, as you would be. Solar panels on the flying school and a large battery onsite means itís heading towards carbon neutral territory ongoing. Itís a moot point though as manufacturing the aircraft in the first place is far from neutral, however the Pipistrel factory is ultra-modern and is fully solar for power.

Itís just the start...
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 09:04
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How To Get Younger Folks Interested in Aviation - Idea#1

*WARNING*
The below is an idea posited simply to encourage thinking. It contains no traces of conspiracy, however a smidgen of insanitythas been included for S&^ts and giggles.
For your own sake, please don't read any further if you're lacking an imagination.

Ideas for Engaging Flights of Fancy, or How To Get Younger Folks Interested in Aviation
Idea #1 - The Great Electric Celebrity Air Race ( Copyright 2019 Vne Productions)

Synopsis
A million dollar cash prize is offered to the team who successfully circumnavigates Australia in the shortest elapsed time and with the smallest overall carbon footprint. Only aircraft powered by electricity will be permitted to compete, however race officials and support crews will travel in conventional aircraft, which will be coincidentally measured for their carbon footprint throughout the race as an interesting comparison. Competitors will start and finish at a predetermined location, with only the next immediate destination known in advance. Intermediate landings to recharge anywhere along the route may be taken as the team requires.

Accompanying each pilot will be some sort of minor celebrity or better, a politician who is to assist with navigation, flight planning, ground handling, cooking, cracking jokes, departure preparations, packing, cleaning and so on. As the teams reach each destination, the next one will be revealed to them. Think a combination of Top Gear Challenges, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here and a Bear Grylls type survival show.

Each aircraft and pilot/navigator will be fitted with cameras and mics, data from which will be uploaded in real time where possible, or after each landing, then edited/packaged and televised in a 30 min TV show each evening. Think Big Brother reality show TV here. Each team will have a 4-person ground based support team, whose role it is to manage the teams social media postings and updates on a moment by moment basis. These folks will similarly be filmed and form part of the overall TV package. The importance of these support teams will become apparent.

The route will cover all of the major regional centres and big cities in order to avoid remote regions where internet bandwidth is limited/not available, but the order in which they will visit them will only be revealed incrementally, e.g as the leading competitor reaches the next town. Thus the slower aircraft will have a much advanced warning of where they are going to visit, compared to the leaders. This is important, because it is incumbent on the competitors to recharge their craft in the most environmentally ďcleanĒ fashion possible.

As recharging the aircraft has a carbon footprint, points will be lost according to how this is done. Use a diesel generator = lose heaps of points, use solar panels = lose almost no points. Ship replacement charged batteries by truck (once the next destination is known) = lose some points, send by train = lose not as many points as by truck. You get the idea Iím sure.

The winning team will be successful by engaging each destinations community via social media, in order to get them to assist the teams in recharging the aircraft with the smallest possible carbon footprint. Ingenuity, organisational and social media skills will be crucial. For example, if a team could mobilise folks to hastily construct a low carbon footprint charging arrangement such as a treadmill powered generator, firstly I would laugh my head off and secondly, they would lose no points. Or maybe an alternate destination that has a grid powered by wind generators might be a good option to recharge. It may not be a point to point race, many diversions may occur. It would become a "peoples race" after a fashion.

The race would be run over a three to four week period, the public could vote online each day for the most popular team, who could potentially earn carbon offset credits. Where possible, destination landing areas would be outside of main airfields (think paddocks, fields, race tracks etc , in order that accessibility to the public could be maximised. Just like the good old days. There would be surprise challenges, twist and turns thrown in.

Support for the race will be manifold, everyone from the TV networks (advertising bonanza) , CASA, local government administrations, right through to the PMO would be on board. It would be a clear demonstration of a commitment to the environment, to innovation, to regional cities and towns, celebrities, social media, tourism (imagine the footage), and most importantly, aviation would be front and centre.

I need to pitch this to someone after Iíve had a lie down..anyone got Dick's number?









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