Releasing insects from a plane
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Releasing insects from a plane
Hi,
I am the Program Director for SITplus, a program releasing sterile Queensland fruit fly to manage wild pest Qfly in southeastern Australia. We are releasing flies currently using a dedicated Cessna Stationair with a permanently installed release machine. The machine has engineering approval for the plane it is fitted to ONLY. The machine augurs flies from a cooled box out two tubes that project below the plane.
I would like to develop a smaller release machine that would push flies out through the opening created by leaving a cargo door off....i.e. no projection from the plane. My hope is that if we could do this we could move from the need for a dedicated plane to a system where the box was latched into a plane, a release flight was made, plane lands and the system is removed. My question is, does what I propose sound feasible/legal? Where do I go to get professional advice??
I am the Program Director for SITplus, a program releasing sterile Queensland fruit fly to manage wild pest Qfly in southeastern Australia. We are releasing flies currently using a dedicated Cessna Stationair with a permanently installed release machine. The machine has engineering approval for the plane it is fitted to ONLY. The machine augurs flies from a cooled box out two tubes that project below the plane.
I would like to develop a smaller release machine that would push flies out through the opening created by leaving a cargo door off....i.e. no projection from the plane. My hope is that if we could do this we could move from the need for a dedicated plane to a system where the box was latched into a plane, a release flight was made, plane lands and the system is removed. My question is, does what I propose sound feasible/legal? Where do I go to get professional advice??
Probably a starting point would be to reply to the regulator for an engineering order. Then approach your bank for a large loan, including the sale of your first born child as collateral. Then at a undetermined time in the future, measured in years you will run out of money and enthusiasm, and patience and decide it was not a good idea. You then become just another sacrifice to the great Gods of aviation who are put here to make life as difficult as possible for as many aviation business’s as possible.
Last edited by flywatcher; 30th Oct 2019 at 11:24. Reason: punctuation
I suppose you already have approval to drop something out of the plane?
Plenty of planes have flown "doors off". If you have the approval for that, and remove a few seats, the fly dispenser could just be appropriately restrained cargo in the back.
(I am no expert/have no experience in this, just thinking out aloud)
Plenty of planes have flown "doors off". If you have the approval for that, and remove a few seats, the fly dispenser could just be appropriately restrained cargo in the back.
(I am no expert/have no experience in this, just thinking out aloud)
A great idea, but be aware that aerodynamics does funny things. Unless the tube is actually in the airflow creating a suction, you might find the flies buzzing around in the cabin. Just because the door or window is open doesn't mean that something will get sucked out. More than one pilot has landed with Aunt Flo's ashes scattered around the cabin.
If you're letting flies out, is it covered by the dropping of articles reg?
You can't "drop" a fly!
If you're letting flies out, is it covered by the dropping of articles reg?
You can't "drop" a fly!
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Exactly Sunfish, flies would appear to fit the CASA definition of an airplane.
Do they have a current CofA?
System of Maintenance Manual?
Approved Flight Manual?
Maintenance release?
Et Al all the other multitude of manuals required before they can fly?
Do they have a current CofA?
System of Maintenance Manual?
Approved Flight Manual?
Maintenance release?
Et Al all the other multitude of manuals required before they can fly?
I think Dawn patrol is onto something. If you could build something capable of being restrained as cargo you may not require an EO. However you would need to make it a battery powered device so that there is no connection to the aircraft electrical system, therefore no need for electrical load analysis, but what would i know?
Best off to contact CASA and find out exactly. I don't think there would necessarily be an issue but don't make decisions based on anonymous opinions on an internet forum!. The aircraft would need to be certified to operate door off and any restrictions in the flight manual/certification on that would need to be observed. I think CAO 29.5 still applies
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015C00054
I would however contact CASA directly and make sure what you are proposing is kosher and what exactly you need to do to comply with regs.
From practical perspective though, as others have mentioned, getting stuff out of an aircraft is usually not as simple as opening a door and dropping it out, you may not get the result you expect!
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015C00054
I would however contact CASA directly and make sure what you are proposing is kosher and what exactly you need to do to comply with regs.
From practical perspective though, as others have mentioned, getting stuff out of an aircraft is usually not as simple as opening a door and dropping it out, you may not get the result you expect!
Would some sort of removable pipe that can, for example, be attached to the box and then be rotated/telescoped out into the airflow (so you aren’t trying to attach a pipe whilst it’s hanging partially outside) from the removed door?
come up with some ideas and go to CASA. See what may or may not be possible. Never know, could end up talking to someone very helpful there. They do exist.
come up with some ideas and go to CASA. See what may or may not be possible. Never know, could end up talking to someone very helpful there. They do exist.
I don't know how big of an apparatus you need but if small ish could it be fixed to the wing strut of a 172 type aircraft. You could potentially get approval to have it on any aircraft.of that type.
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Option 1
Rent PA28/C210 etc ,
Embark on scenic flight upwind of proposed release area
At drop zone, open storm window ,
hold tupperware container up to hole , open lid,
swoosh....contents sucked out.
continue with scenic flight.
land/taxi/picket
lunch at local pub
who’s to know ?
Option 2 - carbon sensitive version
Call Taxi company,
specify toyota prius
travel to release area
wind down rear window
hold tupperware container out the hole
open lid and liberate contents
travel to local pub
Exchange remaining funds for char grilled steak and beer
100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back
option 3
Involve CASA in even the smallest way
100% frustration
100% loss of funds
100% chance of waking up a few days later handcuffed in a dark public toilet with a hacksaw in one hand and surrounded by hungry rats.
Rent PA28/C210 etc ,
Embark on scenic flight upwind of proposed release area
At drop zone, open storm window ,
hold tupperware container up to hole , open lid,
swoosh....contents sucked out.
continue with scenic flight.
land/taxi/picket
lunch at local pub
who’s to know ?
Option 2 - carbon sensitive version
Call Taxi company,
specify toyota prius
travel to release area
wind down rear window
hold tupperware container out the hole
open lid and liberate contents
travel to local pub
Exchange remaining funds for char grilled steak and beer
100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back
option 3
Involve CASA in even the smallest way
100% frustration
100% loss of funds
100% chance of waking up a few days later handcuffed in a dark public toilet with a hacksaw in one hand and surrounded by hungry rats.
Last edited by Ivana Kransky; 30th Oct 2019 at 23:30.
Hi,
I am the Program Director for SITplus, a program releasing sterile Queensland fruit fly to manage wild pest Qfly in southeastern Australia. We are releasing flies currently using a dedicated Cessna Stationair with a permanently installed release machine. The machine has engineering approval for the plane it is fitted to ONLY. The machine augurs flies from a cooled box out two tubes that project below the plane.
I would like to develop a smaller release machine that would push flies out through the opening created by leaving a cargo door off....i.e. no projection from the plane. My hope is that if we could do this we could move from the need for a dedicated plane to a system where the box was latched into a plane, a release flight was made, plane lands and the system is removed. My question is, does what I propose sound feasible/legal? Where do I go to get professional advice??
I am the Program Director for SITplus, a program releasing sterile Queensland fruit fly to manage wild pest Qfly in southeastern Australia. We are releasing flies currently using a dedicated Cessna Stationair with a permanently installed release machine. The machine has engineering approval for the plane it is fitted to ONLY. The machine augurs flies from a cooled box out two tubes that project below the plane.
I would like to develop a smaller release machine that would push flies out through the opening created by leaving a cargo door off....i.e. no projection from the plane. My hope is that if we could do this we could move from the need for a dedicated plane to a system where the box was latched into a plane, a release flight was made, plane lands and the system is removed. My question is, does what I propose sound feasible/legal? Where do I go to get professional advice??
three aspects to this
1) maintenance procedures
2) aircraft operating procedures and limitations
3) aerial work AOC
Before going to the Part 21 organisation I would identify a pool of aircraft that you would like to use, in all likelihood this will require an individual flight manual supplement for each aircraft, the supplement would include the maintenance procedure to remove and store the door, and returning the aircraft to service (assuming non pressurised aircraft). However depending on the system of maintenance the aircraft is on (the system of maintenance could be schedule 5, the manufactures, or tail specific) it may not be pilot approved maintenance. The removal and installation of the door would need to be recorded on the maintenance release. There will need to a training procedure developed and delivered if you plan to use people other than LAMEs to configure the aircraft.
The flight manual supplement will also consider any specific limitations for this configuration, speeds, flaps, carriage of passengers. You may need a tube from a front window to create a pressure differential to deploy the flies. The rear door area maybe a higher pressure than the inside of the aircraft.
if you already have the operational approval for your aerial work, you will need the AOC updated with the types and registrations that are used.
I wouldn’t contact CASA directly at this stage (it’s three different CASA areas), whoever you employ to document this (eg a Part 21 organisation like Nova Systems) would be able to handle the engineering and maintenance side. The AOC side is a lot easier if you go with all the engineering approved, and all you want to do is vary the AOC to include new type and registrations.
it may even be cheaper if you are doing many airframes to have your Part 21 organisation to generate a simple FAA STC (supplemental type certificate) for this which could cover every aircraft on those types certificates, and any maintenance organisation could apply that STC to any type listed on the STC. CASA would just accept the STC without getting involved in the engineering. Then you could also licence that STC to other organisations to get some cost recovery.
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Wow.
Overthinking and over engineering.
Beneficial insects released from aircraft over crops has been conducted for a long time, with no special equipment other than an open window.
Not so common now that cotton is bred resistant to heliothis.
Get on Part 137. Will cover you for all said approvals, dropping of articles, equipment etc etc.
Overthinking and over engineering.
Beneficial insects released from aircraft over crops has been conducted for a long time, with no special equipment other than an open window.
Not so common now that cotton is bred resistant to heliothis.
Get on Part 137. Will cover you for all said approvals, dropping of articles, equipment etc etc.
If you can get approval to drop small incendiary balls, one would assume that flies would be of no consequent.
Maybe you could draw on the incendiary dropping device as a starting design for a fly dropping device.
Maybe you could draw on the incendiary dropping device as a starting design for a fly dropping device.
My earlier post re a device just vanished que ??
Make a big syringe out of large poly pipe, ill with flies and inject into the airstream.
Might even be able to use the storm window.
Try and avoid CAsA if ya can. Life was meant to be simple and easy...just do it !
Make a big syringe out of large poly pipe, ill with flies and inject into the airstream.
Might even be able to use the storm window.
Try and avoid CAsA if ya can. Life was meant to be simple and easy...just do it !
These "articles" are not being dropped to earth, as in fire starter balls or 1080 baits.
The flies are be released into the airspace to do what they do. No threat to persons and property on the ground.
Certainly don't design any complex fitted device and submit to CAsA., otherwise that will be the start of yr traumas and all yr flies will be dead by any far away future approval for release date.
The flies are be released into the airspace to do what they do. No threat to persons and property on the ground.
Certainly don't design any complex fitted device and submit to CAsA., otherwise that will be the start of yr traumas and all yr flies will be dead by any far away future approval for release date.
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Not unusual in the outback for a helicopter to fly door off with a rifleman "dropping" bullets to cull vermin. An operator controlled variation of this could be a wand attached via a hose to the insect storage compartment. I guess you are talking about releasing hundreds of thousands if not millions of flies during the flight. As mentioned before, being able to keep your system as independent as possible from the aircraft systems, and only dealing in things that already have well established precedents (doors off, hazardous goods) should allow your program to reach its implementation stage much quicker and cheaper. Good luck.
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However you would need to make it a battery powered device so that there is no connection to the aircraft electrical system, therefore no need for electrical load analysis, but what would i know?
A hand held venturi out an open window, connected by hose to the insect container carried as cargo, would do the job, surely?
aroa:
My earlier post re a device just vanished que ??