Is There Any Evidence The RAAF Has A Positive Attitude To GA?
Thread Starter
Just an idea to ponder, Sunfish- it isn't the world that's changed, it's your perception of it.
Remember when you where young, older people complained about the world today and reminisced about the good old days?
Now look in the mirror......
Remember when you where young, older people complained about the world today and reminisced about the good old days?
Now look in the mirror......
These days I'm more concerned that we have bred a nation of conformists.
I get the sarcasm about LBGTQ - I've had gay friends of both sexes for forty years and been part of the wedding party on a ground breaking same sex wedding. What concerns me is the SJW's are focussing on trendy issues and not poverty, homelessness, unemployment, corruption and lack of investment in anything but property just for examples.
...but we are way off topic.
When I was young, the oldies were complaining about our laissez faire attitudes; if it feels good do it!
These days I'm more concerned that we have bred a nation of conformists.
I get the sarcasm about LBGTQ - I've had gay friends of both sexes for forty years and been part of the wedding party on a ground breaking same sex wedding. What concerns me is the SJW's are focussing on trendy issues and not poverty, homelessness, unemployment, corruption and lack of investment in anything but property just for examples.
...but we are way off topic.
These days I'm more concerned that we have bred a nation of conformists.
I get the sarcasm about LBGTQ - I've had gay friends of both sexes for forty years and been part of the wedding party on a ground breaking same sex wedding. What concerns me is the SJW's are focussing on trendy issues and not poverty, homelessness, unemployment, corruption and lack of investment in anything but property just for examples.
...but we are way off topic.
well, unless you were from Asia in which case you were not allowed in so it didn't matter I guess.
Or were aboriginal, or part aboriginal or looked a bit too brown in which case you were not an appropriate person to raise your own kids.
Or female in which case you were expected to resign your job if you got married and would be arrested if you sat with a cool bevvie in the front bar (even if you were married).
Or if you wanted to do consensual things in the privacy of your own bedroom that didn't fit the required mold.
Or you wanted to go to a pub and have a drink after 6pm, or wanted to have a wager on the nags if you weren't at the track, or play poker for money, or wanted to read a particular book by D.H.Lawrence or one by Jackie Collins because you might have their morality corrupted, or wear a bikini at the beach (not that I ever have, OK... look, that was an accident and there was only that one time), or watch TV or listen to a radio without a licence (well up until 1974 when that socialist pinko Gough decided to abolish them
and they didn't even reimburse the poor law abiders who had paid for theirs before the 18 september!! https://www.nfsa.gov.au/latest/radio-and-tv-licences), or wanted to open your shop after 5pm or criticise Joh in Qld or... god knows.
Other than that, yep, you were more trusted.
Well OK you were unless you possessed more than 50kg of potatoes and you were in WA and it was after 1946... well, actually that is still a law, you still can't possess more than 50kg of potatoes in WA (Think that is still the case) so I guess that kind of undermines my argument a bit.
Anyway I personally would like us to go back to the 60s. People back then didn't keep whinging about everything was going downhill and it was better back in the day. Well OK they did. But the briefing offices the government provided gave out free charts and you could submit a flight plan over the counter and discuss it with the briefing officer so there was that. Even if that was a little bit socialist.
Strewth... that felt good.
Seriously though... does CASA need an overhaul? emphatic yes.
Could things be made better? emphatic yes.
So is the world (and aviation in particular) going to hell because of woman and gays and people believe in climate change influencing the government and RAAF and CASA?... nah, sorry, not buying.
All of which of course will change no one's mind hear* but I have enjoyed having a spray!
* especially the spelling nazis... oh god... I have invoked Godwin's law
Or were aboriginal, or part aboriginal or looked a bit too brown in which case you were not an appropriate person to raise your own kids.
Or female in which case you were expected to resign your job if you got married and would be arrested if you sat with a cool bevvie in the front bar (even if you were married).
Or if you wanted to do consensual things in the privacy of your own bedroom that didn't fit the required mold.
Or you wanted to go to a pub and have a drink after 6pm, or wanted to have a wager on the nags if you weren't at the track, or play poker for money, or wanted to read a particular book by D.H.Lawrence or one by Jackie Collins because you might have their morality corrupted, or wear a bikini at the beach (not that I ever have, OK... look, that was an accident and there was only that one time), or watch TV or listen to a radio without a licence (well up until 1974 when that socialist pinko Gough decided to abolish them
and they didn't even reimburse the poor law abiders who had paid for theirs before the 18 september!! https://www.nfsa.gov.au/latest/radio-and-tv-licences), or wanted to open your shop after 5pm or criticise Joh in Qld or... god knows.Other than that, yep, you were more trusted.
Well OK you were unless you possessed more than 50kg of potatoes and you were in WA and it was after 1946... well, actually that is still a law, you still can't possess more than 50kg of potatoes in WA (Think that is still the case) so I guess that kind of undermines my argument a bit.
Anyway I personally would like us to go back to the 60s. People back then didn't keep whinging about everything was going downhill and it was better back in the day. Well OK they did. But the briefing offices the government provided gave out free charts and you could submit a flight plan over the counter and discuss it with the briefing officer so there was that. Even if that was a little bit socialist.
Strewth... that felt good.
Seriously though... does CASA need an overhaul? emphatic yes.
Could things be made better? emphatic yes.
So is the world (and aviation in particular) going to hell because of woman and gays and people believe in climate change influencing the government and RAAF and CASA?... nah, sorry, not buying.
All of which of course will change no one's mind hear* but I have enjoyed having a spray!
* especially the spelling nazis... oh god... I have invoked Godwin's law
Jonkster what a great post! I’m going to have to weigh my spud stash....
And on spelling, there was the fantastic recent irony of someone who’d corrected another poster making an error themselves on another thread at around the same time.
And on spelling, there was the fantastic recent irony of someone who’d corrected another poster making an error themselves on another thread at around the same time.
Last edited by Flaming galah; 25th Oct 2019 at 05:30.
Other than that, yep, you were more trusted.
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,965
Received 92 Likes
on
53 Posts
the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
That Admiral Engen is offered the job as head of CASA with supreme authority and given one instruction; Clean out the place and put in some sensible Regulations. And given 2 years to do so.
And that is probably all it ever will be; A dream!
Vice Admiral Donald Engen (Ret.) was killed in a motorised glider accident in Nevada on 13th July 1999. RIP.
Last edited by gerry111; 25th Oct 2019 at 12:36. Reason: Rank correction.
Sunfish,
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: europe
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish,
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!
Quite some time ago, the then FAA Administrator (Admiral) Donald Engen, paid a visit to Melbourne.
He was very quick on the uptake.
On the return flight to US he made the following remark: "You know, in US, if a person is a pilot we trust them. In Australia, if a person is a pilot, you mistrust them"
Pretty perceptive for about five days in the country.
Tootle pip!!
You and your ilk are too stupid to realise that we live in a dynamic world (“dynamic = characterised by constant change). What I am trying to explain to all you boiling frogs is that the glass wasn’t always completely empty. It doesn’t have to be empty in future either.
The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.
You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.
And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!
To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.
The boiling frog doesn’t know it’s being boiled because the temperature change is gradual. So has been the loss of your aviation freedoms. ASICS, the continual attempts at encroachment by bureaucrats on your basic operations in the name of “safety”, the use of the criminal code, capricious enforcement, etc., etc. and you think this is normal??? Perhaps to you it is. I remember different times - and that allows me to think of different possibilities for the future.
You are obviously content with the status quo, I see a trend to even more authoritarianism in the future, for example, how would you like your stupid little “e-health” record to be automatically shared with CASA Avmed? That is only the beginning of how “big data” is potentially going to change your life and freedoms.
And now the days of just walking into a hangar without an ASIC are gone on some airports, then there is the OH&S crowd, then there is what has been done Angel Flight and Glen Buckley, and you sit there, Pangloss like, and think you live in the best of all possible worlds? You have been conditioned like one of Pavlov’s dogs, to enjoy your captivity!
To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today! There would be social justice warriors crying in the gutters over the outrage. Then feminists would demand to know why only boys did this. Then the transgender lobby would swing in. FFS, there is nothing sacred about aviation as an activity except to CASA.
You fit into a profile not dis-similar to Dick Smith when it comes to using this forum to try and gain traction for political agendas.
That MO goes something like this:
1. Start a post about something you are genuinely already convinced about and in which your view can not be swayed
2. Disguise it, using the title of your post as a question as if you want feedback and to hear what others have experienced or feel
about this area.
3. Attempt to systematically destroy or minimise evidence or view points which contradict your original one
4. Here’s the pièce de résistance... Introduce a false dilemma type argument - the old “you’re either completely with me, or completely against me”. For example, in a thread about RAAF promoting GA, discuss whether people in Switzerland should be allowed to take their military service rifles on public transport.
5. Wrap it all up with some sorrow and attempt to illicit sympathy and garner support that way from the people you’ve stereotyped and belittled in the first place (“I was once in a gay wedding ceremony”).
Other, even more juvenile techniques you’ve tried to successfully employ include:
- throwing of insults (“boiling frogs”)
- hands in the air Helen Lovejoy style (“ I will now shut up on this subject.“ followed by nothing of the sort)
- segregation (assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with you is LGBTI)
- talking down (“dynamic = constantly changing” - thanks for explaining that little gem to the peasants, sure to get people on side)
So a little advice from this heterosexually married with three kids whom you’ve branded as being with “them”, you know the social justice, LBGTI, govenrment captives...
1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.
You asked if the RAAF promote GA. And several of the posters have indicated they do, such as
- supporting and encouraging pilots to fly GA on weekend when their hours are low
- Pearce flying club (which unfortunately had to be relocated)
- Highly ranked Air Force officers with obvious personal interest in GA and private aircraft ownership
I’ve never been in the forces. But thanks to the responses to your post, it would appear to me that the RAAF is most definitely not anti-GA.
Thanks for clearing it up 👍
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, I’ll bite. You want to know what your problem is Sunfish?
You fit into a profile not dis-similar to Dick Smith when it comes to using this forum to try and gain traction for political agendas.
That MO goes something like this:
1. Start a post about something you are genuinely already convinced about and in which your view can not be swayed
2. Disguise it, using the title of your post as a question as if you want feedback and to hear what others have experienced or feel
about this area.
3. Attempt to systematically destroy or minimise evidence or view points which contradict your original one
4. Here’s the pièce de résistance... Introduce a false dilemma type argument - the old “you’re either completely with me, or completely against me”. For example, in a thread about RAAF promoting GA, discuss whether people in Switzerland should be allowed to take their military service rifles on public transport.
5. Wrap it all up with some sorrow and attempt to illicit sympathy and garner support that way from the people you’ve stereotyped and belittled in the first place (“I was once in a gay wedding ceremony”).
Other, even more juvenile techniques you’ve tried to successfully employ include:
- throwing of insults (“boiling frogs”)
- hands in the air Helen Lovejoy style (“ I will now shut up on this subject.“ followed by nothing of the sort)
- segregation (assuming anyone who doesn’t agree with you is LGBTI)
- talking down (“dynamic = constantly changing” - thanks for explaining that little gem to the peasants, sure to get people on side)
So a little advice from this heterosexually married with three kids whom you’ve branded as being with “them”, you know the social justice, LBGTI, govenrment captives...
1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.
You asked if the RAAF promote GA. And several of the posters have indicated they do, such as
- supporting and encouraging pilots to fly GA on weekend when their hours are low
- Pearce flying club (which unfortunately had to be relocated)
- Highly ranked Air Force officers with obvious personal interest in GA and private aircraft ownership
I’ve never been in the forces. But thanks to the responses to your post, it would appear to me that the RAAF is most definitely not anti-GA.
Thanks for clearing it up 👍
Well done Pete, nail smashed on the head.
Slippery_Pete- The problem with your post is it makes people like me wonder why I bother posting when people like you do it so much better.
To put it another way, how horrified would you be to learn that when I was a kid, I carried my military rifle to school or the range on public transport. Think of it! Whole cities would be in lockdown if that happened today!
That was probably back when they had conscription; they don’t have that any more. That’s why they gave you the rifle, to make you feel important, thus it’s easier to send you off to war to your early death because you believe they trusted you to protect the country. You don’t realise it Sunfish, that nothing has actually changed over time! Nor have you...
Could people please desist from quoting Voldesled.
I have gone to the effort of blocking his contributions and it does no good to my blood pressure to have his rubbish appear.
PoodleTip
I have gone to the effort of blocking his contributions and it does no good to my blood pressure to have his rubbish appear.
PoodleTip
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: A pothole on the information superhighway
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You want to know what your problem is Sunfish?
<snip>
<snip>
So a little advice from this heterosexually married with three kids whom you’ve branded as being with “them”, you know the social justice, LBGTI, govenrment captives...
1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.
1. Don’t ask questions about things on which you are SURE you already have the answer. This is the most important piece of advice - you’re setting yourself up for anger and heartache every time.
2. Don’t attack and shoot down people who don’t give you the answer you’re looking for. Again, see point 1 to avoid this.
3. Avoid false dilemma arguments.
4. Take a break from PPRuNe, and go and sniff the roses.
