Flying School Owner makes AFR rich list
Join Date: Oct 2011
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One could go to any flying school and achieve this total cost.
Aspirants probably have nobody to get advice from regarding the best way to obtain the flying qualification they dream of.
They sometimes get fooled as they naturally have no understanding of the process.
My advice is that there are some great schools and instructors out there who just love flying and teaching people to fly.
They are not interested in crushing the opposition if there is any at the local aero drone.
Never ever pay up front, enrol in an integrated course.
Make sure you love flying and are willing to knuckle down and do the less pleasant things, eg study Air Law, 85% pass mark
in the CPL.
Simple arithmetic and knowing the parameters allows one to determine what a PPL, a CPL a single engined CIR, multi engine CIR, night rating etc will cost.
The aircraft providers advertise their prices on the web.
I shall also reiterate, formal classes are not necessary, self study is very simple because of the excellent texts available.
Same goes for the IREX exam, buy Tait’s and study it, do all the questions, do not bother to go to a class if you are half intelligent.
Pre and post briefings are part of the dual cost of the flying lesson, so is the management of the student, documentation and so on.
Any school that requires you to wear a uniform should be avoided unless you are with the RAAF.
Aspirants probably have nobody to get advice from regarding the best way to obtain the flying qualification they dream of.
They sometimes get fooled as they naturally have no understanding of the process.
My advice is that there are some great schools and instructors out there who just love flying and teaching people to fly.
They are not interested in crushing the opposition if there is any at the local aero drone.
Never ever pay up front, enrol in an integrated course.
Make sure you love flying and are willing to knuckle down and do the less pleasant things, eg study Air Law, 85% pass mark
in the CPL.
Simple arithmetic and knowing the parameters allows one to determine what a PPL, a CPL a single engined CIR, multi engine CIR, night rating etc will cost.
The aircraft providers advertise their prices on the web.
I shall also reiterate, formal classes are not necessary, self study is very simple because of the excellent texts available.
Same goes for the IREX exam, buy Tait’s and study it, do all the questions, do not bother to go to a class if you are half intelligent.
Pre and post briefings are part of the dual cost of the flying lesson, so is the management of the student, documentation and so on.
Any school that requires you to wear a uniform should be avoided unless you are with the RAAF.
Good luck training in Bristells, the flying school which is the subject of this thread has explored that with disasterous consequences for several instructors and students.
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Swells, I would be happy to take you on and give you a discount and only charge you $70,000.
Sounds like you would be happy to pay 35% more than it should cost and are reluctant to do self study to achieve your dream.
Sounds like you would be happy to pay 35% more than it should cost and are reluctant to do self study to achieve your dream.
Whilst not wanting to divert this thread from its subject, I must correct Biggles081053 where he mentions the Partenavia (VH-PNW) accident at Essendon on 10/7/1978.
The investigation (https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24632/197802547.pdf) conclusion was "The cause of the accident was that the aircraft became grossly out of trim at a height which did not permit time for the crew to affect recovery."
CC
The investigation (https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24632/197802547.pdf) conclusion was "The cause of the accident was that the aircraft became grossly out of trim at a height which did not permit time for the crew to affect recovery."
CC
otherwise I got a lot of other things I would rather read
Correct, my mistake, Was thinking of the sea crash east of Adelaide.
Yes out of trim, suspected that the chap doing a review inadvertently knocked the electric pitch trim toggle switch on the top of the control column.
Easily done in a situation like that, asymmetric flight situation.
I think asymmetric ops were then banned at Essendon.
Yes out of trim, suspected that the chap doing a review inadvertently knocked the electric pitch trim toggle switch on the top of the control column.
Easily done in a situation like that, asymmetric flight situation.
I think asymmetric ops were then banned at Essendon.
With a very much diminished GA, where does a freshly minted CPL get work these days? Does anyone actually employ a 250 hour CPL / MEIR to fly an IFR twin single pilot?
These are questions which candidates need to ask themselves before committing the $100+ K to their dream.
These are questions which candidates need to ask themselves before committing the $100+ K to their dream.
Does anyone actually employ a 250 hour CPL / MEIR to fly an IFR twin single pilot?
...I have however employed several 600-700 hour instructors in recent years who have ended up flying single pilot IFR twins within 6 months. It's not a first job, nor should it be, but it is handy to have the qualifications when your employer needs to put someone in the seat.
What the GA charter industry will look like in 6 months time however, with the NT and TAS in lockdown and no foreign tourists, nobody can say for sure.
I wouldn't say never, but immensely unlikely.
...I have however employed several 600-700 hour instructors in recent years who have ended up flying single pilot IFR twins within 6 months. It's not a first job, nor should it be, but it is handy to have the qualifications when your employer needs to put someone in the seat.
What the GA charter industry will look like in 6 months time however, with the NT and TAS in lockdown and no foreign tourists, nobody can say for sure.
...I have however employed several 600-700 hour instructors in recent years who have ended up flying single pilot IFR twins within 6 months. It's not a first job, nor should it be, but it is handy to have the qualifications when your employer needs to put someone in the seat.
What the GA charter industry will look like in 6 months time however, with the NT and TAS in lockdown and no foreign tourists, nobody can say for sure.
As far as I am aware, Tassie’s not ‘locked down’ but there is a 14 day isolation period for ‘foreigners’ - anyone arriving from outside the State.
While pondering the versatility and usefulness of ‘light aircraft’ transport in the current crisis, I was also pondering how the Tasmanians will ‘police’ the 14 day isolation period. Easy for authorities to ‘know’ who’s arriving at the ports and the airports. Not so easy a light aircraft lobbing in to an ALA.
While pondering the versatility and usefulness of ‘light aircraft’ transport in the current crisis, I was also pondering how the Tasmanians will ‘police’ the 14 day isolation period. Easy for authorities to ‘know’ who’s arriving at the ports and the airports. Not so easy a light aircraft lobbing in to an ALA.
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Simple answer is do not spend the money unless you really can afford it.
Better still go to University and do a course that will get you a well paid job or learn a trade, become an aircraft mechanic.
Plenty of well paid jobs all over the world for a LAME but it takes a lot more than 200 hours to get the ticket.
Simultaneously have flying lessons, with a CPL and AME jobs will be plenty.
I have seen the majority of young CPLs with Instructor ratings end up working stacking shelves and having no money or prospects into their late 20s and even 40s.
Sadly there just are not the jobs around, save up and fly for pleasure.
I have known one or 2 go on to greater things, but one was French, the other was in the right place at the right time with connections. But by far the majority of those folk wandering around with white shirts , meaningless epilated and blue trousers at airports all over the world working to get hours up flying 172s earning nothing are most likely headed for disaster financially.
Try and get into the RAAF via the Defence Academy, you will need a very good HSC and like sport and be reasonably tough.
Better still go to University and do a course that will get you a well paid job or learn a trade, become an aircraft mechanic.
Plenty of well paid jobs all over the world for a LAME but it takes a lot more than 200 hours to get the ticket.
Simultaneously have flying lessons, with a CPL and AME jobs will be plenty.
I have seen the majority of young CPLs with Instructor ratings end up working stacking shelves and having no money or prospects into their late 20s and even 40s.
Sadly there just are not the jobs around, save up and fly for pleasure.
I have known one or 2 go on to greater things, but one was French, the other was in the right place at the right time with connections. But by far the majority of those folk wandering around with white shirts , meaningless epilated and blue trousers at airports all over the world working to get hours up flying 172s earning nothing are most likely headed for disaster financially.
Try and get into the RAAF via the Defence Academy, you will need a very good HSC and like sport and be reasonably tough.
Last edited by Biggles081053; 20th Mar 2020 at 01:49. Reason: Typing error
Simple answer is do not spend the money.
Better still go to University and do a course that will get you a well paid job or learn a trade, become an aircraft mechanic.
Plenty of well paid jobs all over the world for a LAME but it takes a lot more than 200 hours to get the ticket.
Simultaneously have flying lessons, with a CPL and AME jobs will be plenty.
I have seen the majority of young PPLs with Instructor ratings end up working stacking shelves and having no money or prospects into their late 20s and even 40s.
Sadly there just are not the jobs around, save up and fly for pleasure.
Better still go to University and do a course that will get you a well paid job or learn a trade, become an aircraft mechanic.
Plenty of well paid jobs all over the world for a LAME but it takes a lot more than 200 hours to get the ticket.
Simultaneously have flying lessons, with a CPL and AME jobs will be plenty.
I have seen the majority of young PPLs with Instructor ratings end up working stacking shelves and having no money or prospects into their late 20s and even 40s.
Sadly there just are not the jobs around, save up and fly for pleasure.
‘’Would simplifying the rules and removing barriers to entry help GA? Examples might include:
-Allowing instructors to practice as in the USA - no AOC or school required.
- Removing AOC and CPL rules regarding carrying goods for sale/tools of trade for tradesmen/engineers/specialists.
- rewording CAR206(/?) allowing milk runs, ad how charter without an AOC.
- Removing cost recoveries and CASA charges.
Ideally adopting FAA rules again with the purpose of encouraging flying activity.
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Interesting reply. Sticks and stones....
But I tend to stick to facts..
Simple arithmetic and experience will tell you the times and cost per hour.
Google say, Swan Hill Flying Club prices, Bendigo Club prices Or Kyneton or Canberra and you will find the cost of the aeroplane per hour.
You know the hours required.
What is your total for a PPl and CPL?
Your argument seems to be, what it should cost because of the effort an operator has put into setting it up.
I probably agree with you there.
The best schools are those where the owner does it because they love to fly and love teaching folks to fly and as long as they make a living, paradise.
That is my attitude.
I see Guy Pearson has expanded in Mildura and closed in Essendon, he thoroughly deserves success , because he has both those qualities, and the
quality of the pilots will be exceptional knowing Guy.
But I tend to stick to facts..
Simple arithmetic and experience will tell you the times and cost per hour.
Google say, Swan Hill Flying Club prices, Bendigo Club prices Or Kyneton or Canberra and you will find the cost of the aeroplane per hour.
You know the hours required.
What is your total for a PPl and CPL?
Your argument seems to be, what it should cost because of the effort an operator has put into setting it up.
I probably agree with you there.
The best schools are those where the owner does it because they love to fly and love teaching folks to fly and as long as they make a living, paradise.
That is my attitude.
I see Guy Pearson has expanded in Mildura and closed in Essendon, he thoroughly deserves success , because he has both those qualities, and the
quality of the pilots will be exceptional knowing Guy.
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I like your ideas, the FAA is a good example to follow.
CASA would consider the risk to themselves, the public and then to the student if they followed the FAA example, but I assume the FAA
has gone along the same path.
CASA would consider the risk to themselves, the public and then to the student if they followed the FAA example, but I assume the FAA
has gone along the same path.
Sunny CAR 206 is the ultimate buggers muddle..! And then some.
Yr 3rd para gets into "commerce" WTF has CASA got to do with whether a PPL tradesman earns his keep carrying his tools and goods either for sale or not, in his c172.
All the "safety" regulator has to think about is whether the tradies is Licenced AFR and medical, his c 172 has a current MR. And he flies by the rules VFR or IFR. NOTHING ELSE,
The rest is a classic example of how bureaurats worm their way into TOTAL CONTROL of how you live yr life ...if an aircraft is involved.
IN the Wet the tradie must use the 172...in the dry he could pile into his ute and use what "road" there is.
Does he get booked by DoT for carrying tools, goods and engaging in commerce that has SFA to do with the travel by road.. NO he does not. Why then for the use of an aeroplane ????
And of course how CAsA applies 206 is inconsistent and discriminatory in the extreme.
Senate hearing 2011? and 13 ? ceo the Screamer McComic..." I say again (thinks: you dumb senators ) CAsA is NOT an commercial regulator" Got that. Absolute BS of cours
206 is handy because r 206 it is a catch all that has undone many.
Also the CA Act does not allow CAsA to regulate 'commerce', 206 is "ultra vires" the Act, and has no head of power' Its a rubbish regulation, but its there and a destructive one to boot.
Sec 92 of the constitution clearly? enshrines the right to free trade NOTHING to do with CAsA
Over the decades CAsA stated on numerous occasions they would rectify all that..BUT NEVER HAVE.
CASA also advised that non safety "crimes" of theirs, strict liability of course, that dont actually make it anywhere near the Govt definition of a crime.. eg forgetting to completely fill in a log book line These would be wiped or just minor civil instead of criminal misdemenours . AS usual wih CAsA ..NEVER HAPPENED'
CAsA the Nightmare is now overtaken by a different horror.
(Non) Aviation House could be empty in six months time, evryone gone home because there is no GA left
Fly safe and wash yr hands !
Yr 3rd para gets into "commerce" WTF has CASA got to do with whether a PPL tradesman earns his keep carrying his tools and goods either for sale or not, in his c172.
All the "safety" regulator has to think about is whether the tradies is Licenced AFR and medical, his c 172 has a current MR. And he flies by the rules VFR or IFR. NOTHING ELSE,
The rest is a classic example of how bureaurats worm their way into TOTAL CONTROL of how you live yr life ...if an aircraft is involved.
IN the Wet the tradie must use the 172...in the dry he could pile into his ute and use what "road" there is.
Does he get booked by DoT for carrying tools, goods and engaging in commerce that has SFA to do with the travel by road.. NO he does not. Why then for the use of an aeroplane ????
And of course how CAsA applies 206 is inconsistent and discriminatory in the extreme.
Senate hearing 2011? and 13 ? ceo the Screamer McComic..." I say again (thinks: you dumb senators ) CAsA is NOT an commercial regulator" Got that. Absolute BS of cours
206 is handy because r 206 it is a catch all that has undone many.
Also the CA Act does not allow CAsA to regulate 'commerce', 206 is "ultra vires" the Act, and has no head of power' Its a rubbish regulation, but its there and a destructive one to boot.
Sec 92 of the constitution clearly? enshrines the right to free trade NOTHING to do with CAsA
Over the decades CAsA stated on numerous occasions they would rectify all that..BUT NEVER HAVE.
CASA also advised that non safety "crimes" of theirs, strict liability of course, that dont actually make it anywhere near the Govt definition of a crime.. eg forgetting to completely fill in a log book line These would be wiped or just minor civil instead of criminal misdemenours . AS usual wih CAsA ..NEVER HAPPENED'
CAsA the Nightmare is now overtaken by a different horror.
(Non) Aviation House could be empty in six months time, evryone gone home because there is no GA left
Fly safe and wash yr hands !
