Flying School Owner makes AFR rich list
If he has 66M then he can easily afford to refund these people out of his own pocket. Sadly I have never been within cooee of a rich list, how are these amounts actually measured?
Clare, the rich list are often “self reported”. The really smart people stay away from such fripperies as rich lists because they don’t want to be targeted and ambushed by charities, get rich quick schemers and the ever present clowns targeting their children. They are often very afraid of publicity.
Furthermore, from my experience, if you around some of these people long enough, you will discover the unpleasant truth about how they made their millions. Many of them I would call “not nice to be with” types.
Furthermore, from my experience, if you around some of these people long enough, you will discover the unpleasant truth about how they made their millions. Many of them I would call “not nice to be with” types.
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Surely....surely...they haven't been fooled for this long about the aircraft that their students are training in. Surely!
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They wouldn't be looking at that anyway, because it's not the integrated 150 hour course, thus the RA-Aus hours count. They could be doing as high as 50-50 in each registration category and still get the same result.
They could be doing as high as 50-50 in each registration category and still get the same result.
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Actually, under Part 61 you can fly all 200 hours in a glider or a RAAus aircraft if you think you can then jump in a C182 or C206 and pass the flight test..... although it's not what I would recommend to any student of mine
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Have there been any further developments? I appreciate that today is a public holiday.. but will flying resume as normal tomorrow?
Have there been any further email updates?
I feel so sorry for the students..
Have there been any further email updates?
I feel so sorry for the students..
A consideration?
HEADLINE- NEWS FLASH
20,000 people enrolled in Victoria in 2018 for the states 2 Year VCE Program. Scandal hits Victorian Education System. Students call for overhaul. Minister stands aside (highly unlikely admittedly), opposition calls for heads. As at 05/11/19 the state has recorded a staggering ZERO percent pass, and no-one has graduated.
The Minister for Education released a statement today, calling for calm, and waiting for the public to wait until the school year finished, and exams were completed. The Minister stated he was confident he could improve the statistics by years and called on the public for calm
Admittedly tongue in cheek. I have absolutely no inside information at all, I really don't. This isn't for the owners. This is for the employees and students.
There is absolutely no suggestion at all that I am aware of that anyones funds are at risk. There are robust procedures to protect such things.
There is no allegation that the Company isn't financially viable. It is well backed and resourced.
The training delay may go as short as a few days, but is likely to be solved, so that it should have little impact, probably similar to a bad week of Melbourne weather.
EVERYBODY wants it resolved, so it will be.
Regarding, inspecting the aircraft, it could be no more sinister than working out the difference between an RAA Aircraft and a GA Aircraft. They could potentially look for a week, and not find any differences.
A relatively small pool initiated what are obviously significant concerns. The concept of a "fee refund" and came up, and the number grew. That is reasonably to be expected.
There are rigid processes, and for all the good people that work there, they do deserve that to unfold.
I really make no suggestions whatsoever to guilt or innocence, just a healthy respect for fair processes, noting also that PPrune is absolutely the right forum for such discussion.
Pulling my head in permanently on this thread. Back a winner today folks, cheers
20,000 people enrolled in Victoria in 2018 for the states 2 Year VCE Program. Scandal hits Victorian Education System. Students call for overhaul. Minister stands aside (highly unlikely admittedly), opposition calls for heads. As at 05/11/19 the state has recorded a staggering ZERO percent pass, and no-one has graduated.
The Minister for Education released a statement today, calling for calm, and waiting for the public to wait until the school year finished, and exams were completed. The Minister stated he was confident he could improve the statistics by years and called on the public for calm
Admittedly tongue in cheek. I have absolutely no inside information at all, I really don't. This isn't for the owners. This is for the employees and students.
There is absolutely no suggestion at all that I am aware of that anyones funds are at risk. There are robust procedures to protect such things.
There is no allegation that the Company isn't financially viable. It is well backed and resourced.
The training delay may go as short as a few days, but is likely to be solved, so that it should have little impact, probably similar to a bad week of Melbourne weather.
EVERYBODY wants it resolved, so it will be.
Regarding, inspecting the aircraft, it could be no more sinister than working out the difference between an RAA Aircraft and a GA Aircraft. They could potentially look for a week, and not find any differences.
A relatively small pool initiated what are obviously significant concerns. The concept of a "fee refund" and came up, and the number grew. That is reasonably to be expected.
There are rigid processes, and for all the good people that work there, they do deserve that to unfold.
I really make no suggestions whatsoever to guilt or innocence, just a healthy respect for fair processes, noting also that PPrune is absolutely the right forum for such discussion.
Pulling my head in permanently on this thread. Back a winner today folks, cheers
What was advertised to the students as to what aircraft type they would be doing their training in?
Was there any advertising suggesting they would do any portion of their training in anything other than a GA aircraft?
Was there any advertising suggesting they would do any portion of their training in anything other than a GA aircraft?
Looking at the SOAR social media pages, a lot of the students at SOAR seem to be... older and/or rougher. I'm sure a lot of them, before signing up to the course wouldn't really have an opinion of being trained in GA aircraft vs RAA aircraft. It's only when they hop online and read other people complaining that their ill feelings are validated and so they start to complain as well. For new students never being involved in aviation at all, it's basically a whole new world. One way to get ahead for these new students is to quickly adopt views from what they read online. It is an easy way to feign experience/knowledge and mitigate feelings of inferiority.
This phenomenon is also present with the CASA exams. When someone fails, they log in online and are able to see people complaining about CASA on a certain Facebook group therefore it validates their feelings that their exam fail wasn't their own fault for not studying properly, it was CASAs (defence mechanism)... I found the 7 CPL exams challenging, I failed four times, but never did I think it was the fault of the exam. Maybe I'm just on the same wavelength as Gavin.
So if the instructors or marketing team at SOAR specifically told, or just mislead students into believing they would be conducting training in GA 172 it is a matter for the Department. There were a bunch of dodgy RTOs at the inception of the loan system which resulted in specific legislation regarding advertising of training courses. But if the students were silly enough to sign up for a course WITHOUT RESEARCHING, assessing value etc (which is one of the obligations before signing up to a VET Student Loan course), getting half way in, failing CASA exams, blaming CASA, going online and getting riled up from other people complaining, they ought to suck it up.
These full time VSL courses are hard... by nature of being large schools, you can get lost in the system. You need to make sure you are getting flights booked regularly. You need to make sure you are thinking about what's coming up next and pre-studying for it without having to be told to. Re attempts and lesson repeats aren't covered by the student loan. Flight test fees, medical, ASIC etc aren't covered as well. It is stressful. But this is the reality of a full time course at a big school.
This phenomenon is also present with the CASA exams. When someone fails, they log in online and are able to see people complaining about CASA on a certain Facebook group therefore it validates their feelings that their exam fail wasn't their own fault for not studying properly, it was CASAs (defence mechanism)... I found the 7 CPL exams challenging, I failed four times, but never did I think it was the fault of the exam. Maybe I'm just on the same wavelength as Gavin.
So if the instructors or marketing team at SOAR specifically told, or just mislead students into believing they would be conducting training in GA 172 it is a matter for the Department. There were a bunch of dodgy RTOs at the inception of the loan system which resulted in specific legislation regarding advertising of training courses. But if the students were silly enough to sign up for a course WITHOUT RESEARCHING, assessing value etc (which is one of the obligations before signing up to a VET Student Loan course), getting half way in, failing CASA exams, blaming CASA, going online and getting riled up from other people complaining, they ought to suck it up.
These full time VSL courses are hard... by nature of being large schools, you can get lost in the system. You need to make sure you are getting flights booked regularly. You need to make sure you are thinking about what's coming up next and pre-studying for it without having to be told to. Re attempts and lesson repeats aren't covered by the student loan. Flight test fees, medical, ASIC etc aren't covered as well. It is stressful. But this is the reality of a full time course at a big school.
You want to be real careful up on that high horse there bloodandiron, there have been plenty of examples where it in fact was the fault of CASA for people failing exams and was only found out by people failing CASA Exams, blaming CASA, going online and getting riled up from other people complaining. The last big one I remember from my training was the Performance Exam which was a total fluster cuck from CASA. Don't assume they're infallible and don't go telling others they should just suck it up.
You're correct, re attempts and lesson repeats aren't covered but one really big thing brought up in this is that Soar were allegedly making people repeat flight sequences they'd already passed. When it comes to large schools as well the booking of flights is less in the hands of the Students and far more in the hands of the school itself and its staff.
Also "Older/rougher"? Where on earth did you get that from sunshine? You're talking real big for someone that only appears to have started their training back in 2017 and would barely be out with their CPL, perhaps feigning experience/knowledge to mitigate feelings of inferiority by jumping online?
You're correct, re attempts and lesson repeats aren't covered but one really big thing brought up in this is that Soar were allegedly making people repeat flight sequences they'd already passed. When it comes to large schools as well the booking of flights is less in the hands of the Students and far more in the hands of the school itself and its staff.
Also "Older/rougher"? Where on earth did you get that from sunshine? You're talking real big for someone that only appears to have started their training back in 2017 and would barely be out with their CPL, perhaps feigning experience/knowledge to mitigate feelings of inferiority by jumping online?
Why are you attacking me? I'm not an abstract person to hate. I'm another person with viewpoint, and I acknowledge the problem is nuanced. And I'm speaking from experience as a VSL student. Have you ever been through the system? I don't think it's entirely the fault of the students. I'm sure SOAR practices some nefarious methods e.g. like you said, of making students repeat lessons they successfully completed. I just think the culture of "CASA bad, SOAR bad, screw Foxbats" is becoming a little oversubscribed and turning into a hive-mind.
Looking at the SOAR social media pages, a lot of the students at SOAR seem to be... older and/or rougher.
You mean that they aren't trust-find kids where mummy and daddy aren't paying for their 150 hour integrated course.
These are students that have taken out a large vet-fee loan in order to get their CPL's in the hope that they will be able to land a job, versus those whose mummy and daddy pay for them, can just go on and do something else if the cadetship doesn't work out.
Blood and iron, look up the term “duty of care”. Students aren’t in a position to know it all or even to know what to research - otherwise they wouldn’t be ab initio students.
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Regarding that article in The Australian and the issue of repeats, one my former flight instructors used to work previously for Soar before he finally called it a day and jumped ships. I picked his brain on this, obviously, as he had first hand information. He named the "student rip-off culture" as the number one reason why he decided to change operators. Instructors were allegedly told to limit taxi speeds, spend extra time in the run-up bays, all on top of the very limited TAS of their Foxbat fleet. Also instructors had to come up with bogus reasons to repeat lessons. I can't verify his claims but the integrity of the man whom I really hold in high esteem is untarnished in my records.
As for signing up for a 150h course on Foxbat/Vixen/Bristell: just imagine how desperate you would be once you get a certain understanding of the system
I know it's no option for foreign students but going the nonintegrated pathway is so much safer than tying yourself to a single school, and price-wise very similar if you build your hours on aircraft beyond those that schools offer.
As for signing up for a 150h course on Foxbat/Vixen/Bristell: just imagine how desperate you would be once you get a certain understanding of the system
I know it's no option for foreign students but going the nonintegrated pathway is so much safer than tying yourself to a single school, and price-wise very similar if you build your hours on aircraft beyond those that schools offer.