Mooney 2POB missing west of Coffs Harbour
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Where the change is most needed is in the mindset of one union, AFAP, who have opposed most every change or advance in the many years I have been around the business, not limited to airspace management.
Overall, Class E airspace is quite a pointless concept but never so ridiculously applied as overhead a major destination between Class D and C airspace.
You can't drive a horse and cart on the freeway
Bloggs, take a holiday, convert your CASA to FAA, I've got a mate who'll do your FR for knicks, try it out.
There are none. You can operate right up to the boundary.AIP ENR 1.1 2.1.2
Note 2: For aircraft operating in close proximity to an airspace boundary where there is a risk of an airspace infringement, the pilot in command should consider obtaining a clearance to enter the airspace or altering track to remain well clear.
There's absolutely nothing about not planning through CTA in AIP. Just don't enter it without a clearance.
Note 2: For aircraft operating in close proximity to an airspace boundary where there is a risk of an airspace infringement, the pilot in command should consider obtaining a clearance to enter the airspace or altering track to remain well clear.
There's absolutely nothing about not planning through CTA in AIP. Just don't enter it without a clearance.
The word “junior” in your handle is appropriate. It used to be the case that aircraft operating outside controlled airspace had to plan for tracks with specified margins to avoid the boundaries of controlled airspace. If my memory serves me correctly, it used to be something like 2nm for boundaries up to 2,000’, 4nm for boundaries up to 4,000’ and so on. But it’s now irrelevant, so I don’t care about it. Sunfish may be labouring under the misconception that those rules still apply. But thanks for your insights, junior.
And what lessons can we all learn on the last two pages about a fatal accident that took two lives, a father and son who lived in my street.
You have degraded what was a very valuable reminder that was given to us again at the cost of the lives of two people which will hopefully reinforce to many of our VFR cousins not to take undue risks
You have degraded what was a very valuable reminder that was given to us again at the cost of the lives of two people which will hopefully reinforce to many of our VFR cousins not to take undue risks
Well said mcoates. I can imagine its not an easy time for those who knew the two men. Shame on those who forget that.
Yes, I agree,
Let us pause and say nothing, until the ATSB gets around to producing whatever work of fiction they produce, within the next 2 years (or whenever).
Let us pause and say nothing, until the ATSB gets around to producing whatever work of fiction they produce, within the next 2 years (or whenever).
Lead Balloon is. correct, but what you #4#4wits miss is the point that you can end up with a criminal conviction for infringing some arcane, convoluted and capriciously enforced regulation. Which is different from any other law in Australia. THAT is what is killing your industry like a slow acting weed killer.
Regarding clearances to CTA boundaries, Lead Baloon is correct. It is an offense as I remember it. What you ****ers don’t understand is that CASA doesn’t publicize the removal of any or all such prohibitions. So those of us who. don’t spend every second reviewing the rules err on the side of personal legal safety. It is not enough to remove a sentence in a regulation against doing something.. Only a ******* idiot would take that as permission from CASA to do whatever it was.
As far as I am concerned, and any prudent pilot, there is a prohibition against planning a VFR flight path within 1 or 2 nm. of a CTA boundary until CASA explicitly gives permission to the contrary. Removing a reference doesn’t cut it. They might have shoved it somewhere else.
I cannot seem to get it through to you that the threat of criminal prosecution is a deal breaker for most Australians, especially professionals.
Regarding clearances to CTA boundaries, Lead Baloon is correct. It is an offense as I remember it. What you ****ers don’t understand is that CASA doesn’t publicize the removal of any or all such prohibitions. So those of us who. don’t spend every second reviewing the rules err on the side of personal legal safety. It is not enough to remove a sentence in a regulation against doing something.. Only a ******* idiot would take that as permission from CASA to do whatever it was.
As far as I am concerned, and any prudent pilot, there is a prohibition against planning a VFR flight path within 1 or 2 nm. of a CTA boundary until CASA explicitly gives permission to the contrary. Removing a reference doesn’t cut it. They might have shoved it somewhere else.
I cannot seem to get it through to you that the threat of criminal prosecution is a deal breaker for most Australians, especially professionals.
‘Wish I had, but Flying is addictive and fun....Until I found out about the miserable regulations and the apparent creatures that construct and enforce them. Just ask Glen Buckley.
You know what is different about aviation in Australia? The fear that surrounds it. It’s like no other activity. I visited a strip near Melbourne - walked into a hangar where a few people were working on aircraft. The look they gave me was what I later identified as fear - for a second they thought I might be from CASA. The atmosphere at two major institutions was also fear. The students and instructors feared the CFI and the CASA man who visited. These were not happy places
The subterfuges when there is a minor hiccup so as not to raise an incident report, the trash that goes into the incident reports that are raised. The culture of “tell em nothing” because what you say could hurt you. The guarded responses to direct questions by people worried by liability or worse still, because if they told you the truth you would walk away. The constant self censorship. These are products of a fearful culture.
There are pockets of light and fun in the general darkness and these need to be extended, but the darkness coming out of Canberra has to be stopped. Think Sauron and his lair on Mt. Doom but I’m waxing poetic.
You know what is different about aviation in Australia? The fear that surrounds it. It’s like no other activity. I visited a strip near Melbourne - walked into a hangar where a few people were working on aircraft. The look they gave me was what I later identified as fear - for a second they thought I might be from CASA. The atmosphere at two major institutions was also fear. The students and instructors feared the CFI and the CASA man who visited. These were not happy places
The subterfuges when there is a minor hiccup so as not to raise an incident report, the trash that goes into the incident reports that are raised. The culture of “tell em nothing” because what you say could hurt you. The guarded responses to direct questions by people worried by liability or worse still, because if they told you the truth you would walk away. The constant self censorship. These are products of a fearful culture.
There are pockets of light and fun in the general darkness and these need to be extended, but the darkness coming out of Canberra has to be stopped. Think Sauron and his lair on Mt. Doom but I’m waxing poetic.
VH-LFA;
Its our country. Unless the Aborigines invented “controlled airspace” there is nothing sacred about it. Just change it. ...Or do we believe that RAAF Group Captain Blair Ponsonby Smythe and Sir Humphrey Appleby actually own the airspace and can tell us peasants what to do?
As Dick has, I think, pointed out, how many ordinary unprivileged pilots and their passengers have to die just to satisfy the RAAF ask for many hundreds of square miles of airspace to play in and the absurd liability fantasies of CASA and AsA?
How many dead this month due to rotten controlled airspace real estate rules? One mooney and one Iroquois? Six or seven people?’
And another thing...,,CASA and their lapdog, the ATSB, sunk the slipper into Angel Flight for far less reason. Where is the special report into East Coast transit airspace and procedures that force small aircraft into flying over water or mountains instead of along the coast with at least the possibility of a safe forced landing? More people have been killed by the current East Coast airspace rules than Angel Flight ever did.
Rant mode off.
Its our country. Unless the Aborigines invented “controlled airspace” there is nothing sacred about it. Just change it. ...Or do we believe that RAAF Group Captain Blair Ponsonby Smythe and Sir Humphrey Appleby actually own the airspace and can tell us peasants what to do?
As Dick has, I think, pointed out, how many ordinary unprivileged pilots and their passengers have to die just to satisfy the RAAF ask for many hundreds of square miles of airspace to play in and the absurd liability fantasies of CASA and AsA?
How many dead this month due to rotten controlled airspace real estate rules? One mooney and one Iroquois? Six or seven people?’
And another thing...,,CASA and their lapdog, the ATSB, sunk the slipper into Angel Flight for far less reason. Where is the special report into East Coast transit airspace and procedures that force small aircraft into flying over water or mountains instead of along the coast with at least the possibility of a safe forced landing? More people have been killed by the current East Coast airspace rules than Angel Flight ever did.
Rant mode off.
You can't drive a horse and cart on the freeway
Can in the States, saw it in Pennsylvania. Probably not in a lot of States. But you can.
DF.
Originally Posted by Leaddy
the Indian Ocean, the Indian sub-continent, and some surrounding countries (just for starters) --- you will undoubtedly be surprised..
That you found the G --- or you couldn't find it?? It ain't hard.
You should really extend your horizons, the world is not Australia, we are just a strange little (and hostile to) statistical blip on the story of aviation.
As a former Director said: "Australian is an aviation Galapagos, where things have developed in splendid isolation" --- about the only thing he said, with which I agreed!
Tootle pip!!
PS; Outside Australia, a vast number of airline pilots would not have a clue what kind of airspace they are in, at any particular time, the fixation is an Australian "thing".
You should really extend your horizons, the world is not Australia, we are just a strange little (and hostile to) statistical blip on the story of aviation.
As a former Director said: "Australian is an aviation Galapagos, where things have developed in splendid isolation" --- about the only thing he said, with which I agreed!
Tootle pip!!
PS; Outside Australia, a vast number of airline pilots would not have a clue what kind of airspace they are in, at any particular time, the fixation is an Australian "thing".
Outside Australia, a vast number of airline pilots would not have a clue what kind of airspace they are in, at any particular time, the fixation is an Australian "thing".
You know what is different about aviation in Australia? The fear that surrounds it. It’s like no other activity. I visited a strip near Melbourne - walked into a hangar where a few people were working on aircraft. The look they gave me was what I later identified as fear - for a second they thought I might be from CASA. The atmosphere at two major institutions was also fear. The students and instructors feared the CFI and the CASA man who visited. These were not happy places
Like the sad Huey thread, there is an elephant in the room here too that no one wants to talk about. Sad indeed but true nevertheless.
Aussie Bob, I tell it as I see it. I could name names if you like. I have seen a few places that seem happier - far, very far, from cities or at least the Melbourne basin.
Most places I see have a siege mentality.
Most places I see have a siege mentality.
The sad thing is Sunny is right, Aussie Bob has lead a aviation charmed life, long may it continue.
No other country, that I have flown in, and that is many, operate a system described by a then very senior CASA lawyer as : "Aviation regulation is for lawyers and judges, for the safe conviction of pilots and engineers".
Look up the "pingya" system of training, unique to Australia: Do xxxxxx, otherwise "they'l pingya!!" ---- training by fear of the consequences.
AND!! ---- for all this we have a rather ordinary record for aviation safety, contrary to local self-delusion --- not within a bull's roar of US.(except for gliding).
Tootle pip!!
PS:
(1)Some little time back, scene a larger NSW country town, weekend with quite a bit of activity, multiple hangar doors open, probably 20-30 cars parked around the place.
The Airstapo turn up, go into the one man flying school, then emerge about 30 minutes later, to have a look around ---- Nothing to see here, all the hangars locked, and only one or two cars, including mine, CASA and those in the club.remaining..
(2) CASA "behaviour" was in large degree responsible for the downfall of NatFly at Narrowmine, biggest flying-in in Australia, in the G.O.Ds.
(3) Very few people ever fly into Avalon East during an airshow, they know CASA is waiting.
Last edited by LeadSled; 27th Sep 2019 at 11:18. Reason: ps added.
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PS; Outside Australia, a vast number of airline pilots would not have a clue what kind of airspace they are in, at any particular time, the fixation is an Australian "thing".
Just made so much more sense when it was simply "CONTROLLED (CTA)....UNCONTROLLED (OCTA)....or GAAP".
Maybe more emphasis in training could be given to teaching that requesting a clearance through CTA is not such a difficult or daunting task.....demystify CTA if you will. I know that back in the day I found the CTA "stuff" overwhelming, and have no doubt that some PVT pilots would still do.
Whereas I was somewhat petrified to enter CTA back then, I am now as equally concerned, or more so, to enter UNCONTROLLED.
Just made so much more sense when it was simply "CONTROLLED (CTA)....UNCONTROLLED (OCTA)....or GAAP".
Maybe more emphasis in training could be given to teaching that requesting a clearance through CTA is not such a difficult or daunting task.....demystify CTA if you will. I know that back in the day I found the CTA "stuff" overwhelming, and have no doubt that some PVT pilots would still do.
Whereas I was somewhat petrified to enter CTA back then, I am now as equally concerned, or more so, to enter UNCONTROLLED.
(3) Very few people ever fly into Avalon East during an airshow, they know CASA is waiting.
Those that do get ramped are commercial operators. Private flyers get free CASA handouts, like a chamois, fuel drainer, iPad covers and booklets to make them realize that CASA are there to help and to promote their large list of online resources, and that they spend millions developing to help make us safer pilots.