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RFDS feeling effects of global pilot shortage

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RFDS feeling effects of global pilot shortage

Old 21st Sep 2019, 02:26
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
Just perused the RFDS website, I see an advert for B350 pilots with required min hours of 2000 plus 500 ME. Seems a tad on the low side unless all they’re doing these days is flying the magenta line.

Deja Vu is correct about the history of GA pilots conditions. I look back on my career and shake my head at what I accepted just to get a few more hours on the next level up, Only did well after leaving to fly overseas. A move that I cannot recommend too highly to anyone wanting to lift themselves out of the poverty cycle.

I too note only one pilot job on the RFDS website and that is for someone to warm a RHS on a B350 based at Jandakot and paying around $20K below the average Australian salary.. Strange for an outfit that claims it can't get pilots.
Sadly the overseas options we took have long since become "uneconomically viable" too.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:02
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Obidiah View Post
Exactly!!

They get paid more because they are worth more, the pilots role on board is probably the least complex and least demanding of all three roles along with the fact the only role which has sensible (??) duty time restrictions.
Without a pilot no one is worth anything. Maybe instead they could jump in a road ambulance for the trip from Charleville to Brisbane, at least the ambulance driver would be getting well paid.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:05
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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I look back on my career and shake my head at what I accepted just to get a few more hours on the next level up, Only did well after leaving to fly overseas. A move that I cannot recommend too highly to anyone wanting to lift themselves out of the poverty cycle.
I know exactly what you mean, with the oversupply in the early 1990s employers could and did take advantage with below award wages and conditions. If you didn't accept then there was always someone who would. Going overseas was the best thing I ever did and I only wish I had been in a position to do it sooner.

Bad employers are crying because they don't have a queue of pilots willing to take whatever they offer and even the good ones are battling with retention as the path to the airlines has sped up.

BTW My mate got a job with Flight West on the F28 and is now with Cathy.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:09
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post
Why make a big deal about the pilot being the lowest paid on board? Doctors and nurses need a uni degree and substantial extra qualifications to work in the aero medical field. Itís not a competition between them and the pilots. By all means go for higher wages, but you wonít get the money by pointing to the medical staff and complaining.
So correct me if I am wrong, but if a pilot had a degree from a uni, like a degree in aviation (LOL) from say RMIT Uni he/she should be paid the same as a doctor or a nurse or at least significantly more than the current rate.. And do tell us more about the "substantial extra qualifications to work in the aero medical field" What complete tosh.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:33
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post


i feel sorry for people like you, you truly are just plain angry with yr multiple "bag 'em" posts!
How many years did you work for the RFDS to make you so bitter?
Don't feel sorry, feel ashamed!
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:35
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
So correct me if I am wrong, but if a pilot had a degree from a uni, like a degree in aviation (LOL) from say RMIT Uni he/she should be paid the same as a doctor or a nurse or at least significantly more than the current rate.. And do tell us more about the "substantial extra qualifications to work in the aero medical field" What complete tosh.
A pilot doesn't need a degree, a nurse or a doctor does. Clearly you have no idea of the extra qualifications you need to work as a doctor or nurse for the RFDS but you can claim it to be tosh. You must be one of those skygods.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:49
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post
A pilot doesn't need a degree, a nurse or a doctor does. Clearly you have no idea of the extra qualifications you need to work as a doctor or nurse for the RFDS but you can claim it to be tosh. You must be one of those skygods.
Quite right, I have no idea of any extra "substantial" qualifications needed to work as a doctor or a nurse for the RFDS and that is why I asked you to clarify. I suspect you don't know either and that you just made that up.
Doctors and nurses do a course of study and when it's completed successfully they get a document called a Degree, when a pilot successfully does a course of study he/she gets a licence, same thing really, a permit to exercise the privileges of whatever document you receive.

So until you can clarify it all this particular skygod thinks you talk absolute tosh.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 04:55
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Without a pilot no one is worth anything. Maybe instead they could jump in a road ambulance for the trip from Charleville to Brisbane, at least the ambulance driver would be getting well paid.
Just a little googling - https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Salary/..._D_KO19,28.htm so the drivers are also the paramedics. Doesnít seem that high to me!

This kind of flying should be the best paid in industry. Itís not just flying itís single pilot flying which means you do it all. Plus as a poster wrote even though one tries not to be involved there is that emotional attachment that is natural. Itís easy to say one doesnít get involved but Iím sure itís always there.

I bet the companies are making a good buck. Tendered contract at a rate. So I ask again all the money raised through public donations where does this go?
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 05:02
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Amazing what lengths some people will go to to justify an organisation not paying people what theyíre worth.

GA as a whole has a terrible history of taking advantage of people. Itís quite enjoyable watching the industry as a whole at this part of the cycle where pilots are becoming a valuable commodity again and itís the pilots fault for not being loyal to employers. Ha.

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Old 21st Sep 2019, 07:04
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA View Post
Amazing what lengths some people will go to to justify an organisation not paying people what theyíre worth.

GA as a whole has a terrible history of taking advantage of people. Itís quite enjoyable watching the industry as a whole at this part of the cycle where pilots are becoming a valuable commodity again and itís the pilots fault for not being loyal to employers. Ha.

Very true.
Once it was a simple handshake. How time has progressed.
Companies have the leverage: too many pilots, having paid too much money for the available employment. Terms and conditions in a slow spiral ever since.

However, demographics and the incredible success of the HR/IR reducing terms and conditions see insufficient supply.

Rather amusing. The industry desperate to hold on to the status quo resorts to calls of loyalty and professionalism. The same thing they considered irrelevant for the last few decades.

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Old 21st Sep 2019, 10:41
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
I too note only one pilot job on the RFDS website and that is for someone to warm a RHS on a B350 based at Jandakot and paying around $20K below the average Australian salary.. Strange for an outfit that claims it can't get pilots.
Sadly the overseas options we took have long since become "uneconomically viable" too.
Not sure where you are looking but every section has EOI ads for pilots on the RFDS website. Also I think youíll find the B350 is Dubbo and that Western Ops (eg Jandakot) only have PC12ís and PC24ís
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 12:37
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Don't feel sorry, feel ashamed!
ok I feel ashamed for you then, sad either way you feel the need to be so negative about everything seeing as (I assume ) you never even worked for them!
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 12:56
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Machtuk, I feel you buddy but you're getting trolled by the autists. Time to get off the internet.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 13:17
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Obidiah View Post
Exactly!!

They get paid more because they are worth more, the pilots role on board is probably the least complex and least demanding of all three roles along with the fact the only role which has sensible (??) duty time restrictions.
Thatís a joke, right?
Nice trolling.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 13:33
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post
A pilot doesn't need a degree, a nurse or a doctor does. Clearly you have no idea of the extra qualifications you need to work as a doctor or nurse for the RFDS but you can claim it to be tosh. You must be one of those skygods.
Iím an RFDS pilot. My partner is an RFDS flight nurse. Thus we have a lot more idea than you do, mate.

She thinks itís extraordinary how little the pilots are valued by management, and is worried about the constantly lowering requirements to be considered for the (pilot) job.

I wonder what would happen if the flight nurses simply refused to fly with low time pilots?


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Old 21st Sep 2019, 13:48
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rcoight View Post


Iím an RFDS pilot. My partner is an RFDS flight nurse. Thus we have a lot more idea than you do, mate.

She thinks itís extraordinary how little the pilots are valued by management, and is worried about the constantly lowering requirements to be considered for the (pilot) job.

I wonder what would happen if the flight nurses simply refused to fly with low time pilots?


Read my posts again mate. I have no problem with RFDS pilots being paid more than they whatever they are getting, I don't doubt management want to lower costs by offering lower wages (and they still get inundated with pilot applicants). I was just replying to the guy who seems to think it is an affront to humanity if the pilot is not the highest paid person on board.
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 13:55
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Deja Vu,
Am I correct in understanding that you think a pilot with a university degree has achieved a degree of academic achievement equivalent to that achieved by a Doctor? ...or even a Nurse?
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Old 21st Sep 2019, 13:58
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post
Read my posts again mate. I have no problem with RFDS pilots being paid more than they whatever they are getting, I don't doubt management want to lower costs by offering lower wages (and they still get inundated with pilot applicants). I was just replying to the guy who seems to think it is an affront to humanity if the pilot is not the highest paid person on board.
Ok. The thing is RFDS are NOT inundated with applications - at least not from people they should be considering.
They are now considering (and more) applications from people who wouldnít have made the ďfiling cabinetĒ a few years ago. It is not unreasonable to ask why the entry standards have dropped so much.
To be honest, the public should be asking this question.
The obvious answer is that while historically RFDS has (rightly) been considered to be the very best of GA and a genuine long term career goal for the right people, in the current environment what they offer is simply not attractive enough to bring in the caliber of pilots the job requires.
Whatís happening now is that shitloads of low-time pilots are using RFDS to pump up their resume for a year or two and then leaving ASAP to that airline job they really wanted all along.
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Old 22nd Sep 2019, 02:50
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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What’s happening now is that shitloads of low-time pilots are using RFDS to pump up their resume for a year or two and then leaving ASAP to that airline job they really wanted all along.
"I'm not interested in flying for the airlines." Is right up there with "Of course I love you." and "The cheque's in the post." It must be one of the most overused lies in the aviation industry.
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Old 22nd Sep 2019, 03:09
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by Horatio Leafblower View Post
Deja Vu,
Am I correct in understanding that you think a pilot with a university degree has achieved a degree of academic achievement equivalent to that achieved by a Doctor? ...or even a Nurse?
No, I do not think or suggest that a pilot "has achieved a degree of academic achievement to that of a Doctor" ? ..or even a Nurse? Some may have but its is not even about that. Some previous posters suggested that Doctors and Nurses were "worth" more than others members on the RFDS team because they had "Uni degrees", so I simply asked if a pilot had a "Uni degree" would they or should they be paid more money. I got no response to that.

What this whole thread is about to me is that GA pilots do not receive sufficient renumeration to live a modest life and a comfortable retirement considering their responsibilities. This has mostly come about, in my view, by a supply and demand situation. Operators like the RFDS have taken advantage of this for many years and now claim that they can't get pilots to work for peanuts as easily any longer and so plead for the pilots to "give back to the sector" while happily paying up to $450K for a GP, if I am reading their website correctly. No one begrudges the Doctor or Nurse earning what they do, thats probably just market forces too.

If we were to pay people based on "academic achievement" alone would aircraft refuellers be making $120K+, train drivers in the Pilbarra $250K+, Alan Joyce $24Million, plumbers $300K etc etc. ???.

A look at the RFDS website shows one vacancy for a pilot in Dubbo, RHS for a B350 earning about the same as check out staff at woolies. There are numerous ads for EOI for pilot jobs, but these are not vacancies but an exercise in filling a filing cabinet with applications. No urgent shortage at all.

I can't help, in my negative cynicism, suspect there is more at play here with this whole issue.
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