Australian Firefighting Aircraft
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Thank you or the information Gentlemen. To move away from the merits of different platforms/techniques and back to the original question.
I understand from the reply’s that the majority of smaller aircraft are Australian operators. Why then can Australian industry not provide the ‘heavy’ machines? The expensive taxpayer funded ones.
For example the NSW Government signed a deal with Coulson of Canada for 737 and Citation operations. US or Canadian (?) C130 and BAe146 contract tankers. US Erickson Skycrane heavy choppers in Victoria, US registered Dauphin in QLD fires this week, US Blackhawks at Bankstown etc etc etc
I understand from the reply’s that the majority of smaller aircraft are Australian operators. Why then can Australian industry not provide the ‘heavy’ machines? The expensive taxpayer funded ones.
For example the NSW Government signed a deal with Coulson of Canada for 737 and Citation operations. US or Canadian (?) C130 and BAe146 contract tankers. US Erickson Skycrane heavy choppers in Victoria, US registered Dauphin in QLD fires this week, US Blackhawks at Bankstown etc etc etc
Thank you or the information Gentlemen. To move away from the merits of different platforms/techniques and back to the original question.
I understand from the reply’s that the majority of smaller aircraft are Australian operators. Why then can Australian industry not provide the ‘heavy’ machines? The expensive taxpayer funded ones.
For example the NSW Government signed a deal with Coulson of Canada for 737 and Citation operations. US or Canadian (?) C130 and BAe146 contract tankers. US Erickson Skycrane heavy choppers in Victoria, US registered Dauphin in QLD fires this week, US Blackhawks at Bankstown etc etc etc
I understand from the reply’s that the majority of smaller aircraft are Australian operators. Why then can Australian industry not provide the ‘heavy’ machines? The expensive taxpayer funded ones.
For example the NSW Government signed a deal with Coulson of Canada for 737 and Citation operations. US or Canadian (?) C130 and BAe146 contract tankers. US Erickson Skycrane heavy choppers in Victoria, US registered Dauphin in QLD fires this week, US Blackhawks at Bankstown etc etc etc
Skycranes are owned and operated by Erickson but brought in under a discreet AOC by an Australian operator, so they are getting a decent cut. Erickson also builds their skycranes as they are the manufacturer. They have sold some to other countries and also supplement that fleet with counteracts operating on opposite summers. An Aussie company can’t afford this investment and have them sit idle over winter.
now you say well why doesn’t the Aussie send their own aircraft overseas in winter? Well there’s lots of financial and regulatory reasons and also ability to compete on price as to why that doesn’t happen. One such example being that most of the Australian aircraft have a host of local Aussie EO’s installed in them. To operate those aircraft in the USA on a forestry contract all that equipment would have to be STC’d, forestry doesn’t accept EO’s. That’s not including the fact the US forestry requires those aircraft to be operating under a US part 135/133 certificate, not a discreet AOC like in Australia for the foreign aircraft.
So in short unless you want the taxpayer to pay more than double for the same heavy assets, then it doesn’t make sense for an Australian operator to purchase these assets themselves. This is really what it comes down to.
dont forget that not all N registered aircraft are brought in. Some are actually owned an operated by Aussies but it’s easier than having them on the casa register for a myriad of regulatory reasons with casa being casa.
Dan the man is wheeled out about this time each year in front of the lineup of birds on the tarmac with every media outlet in attendance.
That’s why.
That’s why.
Folks,
In the last few days, it has been reported that the Coulson B737 has been acquired (as in bought, it now belongs to us.)by the NSW Government, with a support contract with Coulson for ten years.
One of the comments was about being available all year. Based at Richmond.
That raises all sorts of interesting issues.
Comments, anyone ??
In the last few days, it has been reported that the Coulson B737 has been acquired (as in bought, it now belongs to us.)by the NSW Government, with a support contract with Coulson for ten years.
One of the comments was about being available all year. Based at Richmond.
That raises all sorts of interesting issues.
Comments, anyone ??
Folks,
In the last few days, it has been reported that the Coulson B737 has been acquired (as in bought, it now belongs to us.)by the NSW Government, with a support contract with Coulson for ten years.
One of the comments was about being available all year. Based at Richmond.
That raises all sorts of interesting issues.
Comments, anyone ??
In the last few days, it has been reported that the Coulson B737 has been acquired (as in bought, it now belongs to us.)by the NSW Government, with a support contract with Coulson for ten years.
One of the comments was about being available all year. Based at Richmond.
That raises all sorts of interesting issues.
Comments, anyone ??
It was in my interest to hound down the VLATS and heavy helicopters being a B412 firebombing and rappel pilot at the time, but I after flying along side all the other machines, I could no longer argue the same argument you have put forth.
The whole daisy chain thing with aircraft on the fire works really well, but once thing that often throws a spanner in the works is change in wind direction and other environmental factors. Eg lets say you want to use 5x Airtractors instead of a VLAT, in my experience not all 5 of them turned up at the same time to drop in a perfect daisy chain. Lets say by some miracle all 5 dispatched do happen to turn up in order to drop a perfect daisy chain, then 50% of the time the smoke will lay over the run in, and the last two guys either can't get in or have to drop a slightly different direction. If you really needed one continuous retardant line and in a hurry, the only reliable way to ensure that happens is with one drop.
So in an absolute perfect world with everything going to plan, then yes, 5x airtractors could have a SIMILAR effect as a VLAT, but they won't have the SAME effect.
Hope this helps explain things a little more.
+1 for what Havick said. Sometimes one big splash is required, other times a water pistol does better. You also need to know that a drop can be very dangerous to firefighters underneath, it ain’t just gentle summer rain, so their safety is another thing that has to be considered.
JM,
Izzatso?
As I said, ---- I was quoting a weekend new report, and all the other posts on this thread refer to 10 year leases ---- NOT outright purchase.
I certainly didn't see anything, three months ago, announcing an outright purchase --- was it covered here on pprune??
But, then again, I don't profess to read everything on pprune, but I do wonder if they (NSW Government) are smart enough to leave it on the US register, or face CASA, getting an Australian C.or A.
Tootle pip!!
Izzatso?
As I said, ---- I was quoting a weekend new report, and all the other posts on this thread refer to 10 year leases ---- NOT outright purchase.
I certainly didn't see anything, three months ago, announcing an outright purchase --- was it covered here on pprune??
But, then again, I don't profess to read everything on pprune, but I do wonder if they (NSW Government) are smart enough to leave it on the US register, or face CASA, getting an Australian C.or A.
Tootle pip!!
JM,
Izzatso?
As I said, ---- I was quoting a weekend new report, and all the other posts on this thread refer to 10 year leases ---- NOT outright purchase.
I certainly didn't see anything, three months ago, announcing an outright purchase --- was it covered here on pprune??
But, then again, I don't profess to read everything on pprune, but I do wonder if they (NSW Government) are smart enough to leave it on the US register, or face CASA, getting an Australian C.or A.
Tootle pip!!
Izzatso?
As I said, ---- I was quoting a weekend new report, and all the other posts on this thread refer to 10 year leases ---- NOT outright purchase.
I certainly didn't see anything, three months ago, announcing an outright purchase --- was it covered here on pprune??
But, then again, I don't profess to read everything on pprune, but I do wonder if they (NSW Government) are smart enough to leave it on the US register, or face CASA, getting an Australian C.or A.
Tootle pip!!
Havick. Thanks for the explanation. I undrestand it better now.
Cheers
Cheers
Thanks you for your kind assistance, pointing me to sources that exactly confirmed what I posted in the first place.
Tootle pip!!
