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Bell ditching off Newcastle

Old 16th Oct 2019, 10:48
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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And what of all the comms with other aircraft, Mick, which would help to justify the activation of the Romeos at the time?
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 10:52
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post

The recording is only of the initial contact and the controller then asks him to contact delivery for onwards clearance. That exchange is not given.
Yes, that's correct. It was just a newspaper article after all. There's a summary (not transcript) of the exchange with Willy Delivery in the timeline graphic in the article.

As an aside, it's interesting that UVC reports being at 1,500 feet on contact with Willy Approach. According to the ADS-B data he was between 2,000 ft and 4,000 ft around that time.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 11:00
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
And what of all the comms with other aircraft, Mick, which would help to justify the activation of the Romeos at the time?
I don't have a dog in the restricted airspace race. There was a bunch of you doing just fine arguing that one to death the other day. Not my table, sorry.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 11:09
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Not to worry. Maggie Island will front up shortly to justify the activation of the Romeos.
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Old 16th Oct 2019, 22:13
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Donít you worry, the Romeoís are activated with or without justification! (Mine or otherwise)
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 12:42
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
No. And, as with the ‘investigation’ into the ditching of NGA, it is unlikely the recordings will be made publicly available. There may be a selective (and probably error-ridden) transcript of comms, but I wouldn’t expect more.

National security is at stake in this case. Imagine if all the Willy Tower and Willy Approach comms on a late Friday afternoon were revealed: All the comms from those F35s and FA18/A/F/Gs and Wedgetails and the dozens of other ADF assets exercising in the active Romeos would reveal important tactical information to the bad guys. And on top of that there’d be all the civvy traffic comms. Too confusing for laypeople to understand.
I can assure you that any of these transmissions would definitely not be, in any form, a risk to national security.

PS I can sell you a really cool tin foil hat

Last edited by jumby164; 17th Oct 2019 at 12:44. Reason: typo
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 00:16
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jumby164 View Post
I can assure you that any of these transmissions would definitely not be, in any form, a risk to national security.

PS I can sell you a really cool tin foil hat
your irony meter broken Jumbo?
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 04:37
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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I'll help you out here Jumbo - Willy after lunch on Fridays is a little quiet, with the only aircraft flying being the SAR chopper doing the rounds of the crab pots on the Saltash Range, in preparation for the 3pm stand-down and crab cook-up.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 07:11
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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The ATSB Interim report is now out.

Very strange. ATC cleared the pilot coastal southbound at night!

Also the pilot requested to remain on the eastern side of R578A. That would put the aircraft way out over the ocean!

Looks as if he was terrified of military restricted airspace and that the military donít have a ADSB Receiver at Willy.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 08:01
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Report debunks the abuse levelled at RAAF controllers. Absence or otherwise of ADS-B receiver at Willy is irrelevant
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 10:36
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2019-050/
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 10:41
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
The ATSB Interim report is now out.

Very strange. ATC cleared the pilot coastal southbound at night!

Also the pilot requested to remain on the eastern side of R578A. That would put the aircraft way out over the ocean!

Looks as if he was terrified of military restricted airspace and that the military donít have a ADSB Receiver at Willy.
Strange? Why?

Given the call made re turbulence it would seem logical to want to avoid terrain.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 10:41
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
The ATSB Interim report is now out.

Very strange. ATC cleared the pilot coastal southbound at night!

Also the pilot requested to remain on the eastern side of R578A. That would put the aircraft way out over the ocean!

Looks as if he was terrified of military restricted airspace and that the military donít have a ADSB Receiver at Willy.
Funny how different people focus on different things. The part of the preliminary that caught my eye was,

Pilot details
The pilot held Private and Commercial Pilot (Helicopter) Licences and was qualified to fly by day under the Visual Flight Rules.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 10:59
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
Funny how different people focus on different things. The part of the preliminary that caught my eye was,
The issue with reading this is that are we've read this, we immediately believe that the pilot has zero NVFR or IFR experience. That may or may not be the case...

Plenty of pilots with current NVFR ratings have met similar fates.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 15:30
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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But more likely more without them have.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 19:49
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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It wouldn't matter whether he had past experience or not, the aircraft wasn't equipped for NVFR and the instruments that were fitted (refer the cockpit photo some pages back) were telling lies. A look at the AI on LHS would make him go into a descending left turn. Which is what happened.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 21:13
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Currawong.

Your comment doesnít meet the commonsense test.

Why would he make a request to keep out of the RAAF restricted airspace ?

And why was it active when it looks as if there was no military traffic. Why not just Class C
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 21:29
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
Currawong.

Your comment doesnít meet the commonsense test.

Why would he make a request to keep out of the RAAF restricted airspace ?

And why was it active when it looks as if there was no military traffic. Why not just Class C
In the transcript he got ďcleared to track AS REQUIRED to Bankstown.Ē

Just stop it.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 21:48
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dick Smith View Post
Currawong.

Your comment doesnít meet the commonsense test.

Why would he make a request to keep out of the RAAF restricted airspace ?

And why was it active when it looks as if there was no military traffic. Why not just Class C
Because, the best route, given the conditions, was the route the crew requested and received.

You still have not answered my question. Why was it strange for ATC to issue a clearance coastal southbound at night?
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 22:08
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
It wouldn't matter whether he had past experience or not, the aircraft wasn't equipped for NVFR and the instruments that were fitted (refer the cockpit photo some pages back) were telling lies. A look at the AI on LHS would make him go into a descending left turn. Which is what happened.
I really donít think a photo from some time ago taken of a panel of an unpowered electric or vacuum artificial horizon is evidence enough to say that it wasnít working ! Let alone even hint that it was the cause!

It might shock some out there to know that some aircraft in this country that are rated for NVFR donít even have an AH fitted !!!
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