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Plane crash at William Creek Airfield

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Plane crash at William Creek Airfield

Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:15
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The Pilot is the Head of Aviation Services for Shell Australia accompanied by his wife.
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:17
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Nose wheel shimmy on an RV can also cause the front nose-leg to fail. I believe there are strengthening kits available now to help. The nose wheel is only really there to stop the prop hitting the ground :-)
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 00:59
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
Centaurus, those tools have their limitations. The Macchis had them on the side wall, and in about 1978, when a canopy was to be removed by maintenance and discarded, the Powers decided it would be good to do a real test on the tool. All the staff and students gathered around, and the steely-eyed knuck walked to the aircraft.

The pilot was strapped in the front seat, the lid was closed and locked, and the clock started.

It was a weird feeling, watching somebody deliberately hacking at the canopy from inside, but what was surprising was that the canopy didn't break easily. It took him a LOT of backhanded hacking, then a rest of the tired arms, a change of grip and more hacking until a tiny hole appeared. A lot more hacking and he managed to make a hole big enough to squeeze out of, and the clock showed over 8 minutes. He was exhausted and overheated. A fire might have heated him a bit too much during the 8 minutes.

We all formed new opinions on the strength of the canopy, and the usefulness of the tool.
Saw the same exercise in a Mirage while at 75SQN. The tool - it looked like an oyster shucking knife with a bigger, heavy handle - seemed to work quite well. Certainly not 8 minutes of effort.

I carry a similar gizmo in my RV9A.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 02:09
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I have a 'car safety hammer' in a pouch secured within easy reach of my seated position in my front cockpit, same as the one a guy uses on an RV7 U/S canopy shown on YT. Hope I never have to use it but at least my 3rd wheel is in the correct location:-):-)!
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 02:56
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Originally Posted by machtuk
I have a 'car safety hammer' in a pouch secured within easy reach of my seated position in my front cockpit, same as the one a guy uses on an RV7 U/S canopy shown on YT. Hope I never have to use it but at least my 3rd wheel is in the correct location:-):-)!
These are good and have the advantage of the "belt cutter blade" built into the handle



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Old 29th Jul 2019, 06:10
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https://fsb.raafansw.org.au/docPDF/J...ng_Article.pdf

The story of the how the canopy breaker knife was introduced into the RAAF. [quote]
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie Centaurus, those tools have their limitations. The Macchis had them on the side wall, and in about 1978, when a canopy was to be removed by maintenance and discarded, the Powers decided it would be good to do a real test on the tool. All the staff and students gathered around, and the steely-eyed knuck walked to the aircraft.The pilot was strapped in the front seat, the lid was closed and locked, and the clock started.It was a weird feeling, watching somebody deliberately hacking at the canopy from inside, but what was surprising was that the canopy didn't break easily. It took him a LOT of backhanded hacking, then a rest of the tired arms, a change of grip and more hacking until a tiny hole appeared. A lot more hacking and he managed to make a hole big enough to squeeze out of, and the clock showed over 8 minutes. He was exhausted and overheated. A fire might have heated him a bit too much during the 8 minutes.We all formed new opinions on the strength of the canopy, and the usefulness of the tool.
Ascend Charlie. The canopy breaker tool (actually a heavy knife with a tough but short blade) was initially tested at ARDU only on a Sabre and Vampire Mk 30 canopy. That was because there were no other spare canopies to smash at the time. Dept of Air needed photographic evidence the knives would work as advertised before approving installation. They were to be tried on the Canberra bomber but that was knocked back by Wing Commander W. Brill who at the time was Staff Officer Bomber Operations (or similar appointment at HQ Operational Command).

The Wingco said the Canberra already had explosive bolts which could shatter the canopy therefore a escape knife was not necessary. If electrical power was not available to actuate the explosive bolts I wondered what would happen then. The result being the Canberra was never fitted with an escape tool. The crew entered the Canberra by a small hatch in the side of fuselage adjacent to the cockpit. If that hatch jammed you were a goner although I understand the navigator could blow off an escape hatch over his own position.
I was unaware of the testing of the canopy breaker knife on the Macchi maybe because I had long left the RAAF by then. But I can well believe the story as our own trials on the Sabre and single seat Vampire were a bit amateur I must cheerfully admit.

Last edited by Centaurus; 29th Jul 2019 at 06:21.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 07:57
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I suspect the RV canopies are not quite as tough as the RAAF canopies. Checkout how easily it can be broken in this video. The video below that shows when you might need it.


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Old 29th Jul 2019, 08:16
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Originally Posted by Cloudee
I suspect the RV canopies are not quite as tough as the RAAF canopies. Checkout how easily it can be broken in this video. The video below that shows when you might need it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRvQxGl4kt4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1sgPXFE114g

Watching this makes me wonder if attempting to ground loop while still having rudder authority might be preferable. This might be better than end over ending it and assumes of course that you know you have a damaged nose leg - just a thought.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 09:09
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Originally Posted by On eyre

Watching this makes me wonder if attempting to ground loop while still having rudder authority might be preferable. This might be better than end over ending it and assumes of course that you know you have a damaged nose leg - just a thought.
After seeing that, if in a similar situation I’d be going for bitumen if available.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 20:48
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
After seeing that, if in a similar situation I’d be going for bitumen if available.
Definitely. And if you had a pax, you'd tell them to get into the baggage compartment to move the CG aft.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 21:24
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Wingnut60.

A car window breaking hammer is good for safety glass but almost useless on plexiglass. Get something more like a cold chisel.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 21:26
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Definitely. And if you had a pax, you'd tell them to get into the baggage compartment to move the CG aft.
Blimey That would be both brave and foolish. No seat belt, "get in the back" I would refuse! As others have said .... Ya put the wheel on the wrong end and you may pay the price. I am also wondering ..... have you seen a RV baggage compartment? A jockey may fit if the canopy was opened to allow ingress.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 22:43
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"IF" you had the peace of mind to do it when the A/C has touched down on a surface that you suspect 'may' cause a nose wheel failure then as soon as you get the mains on the ground unlock the canopy & slide it back even partly just in case. Am informed Pax could do this for you under your instructions. Just a thought is all?
I'd never own a nose wheel version of a Vans, I've seen the results of one that flipped at my local field on smooth grass, no thanks!
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 23:14
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These images and report might be relevant.
Up
And over
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/577270...-001_final.pdf
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 23:21
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I'm not a pilot so know nothing about canopy design, or materials used, but when I was a paramedic I used to carry a spring loaded centre punch in case I ever had to smash a car window. Only ever tried it on an old abandoned car but worked well on automotive glass. Much less effort than a traditional safety hammer. Dont think I'll be able to post links or photos on here but search on google for "spring loaded centre punch" and you'll find loads...
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 01:17
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Interesting technique in the RV canopy video. Start near the side frame (guess it is more rigid there), create a crack, and then follow the crack around until a large section breaks away.

Might not be so easy in real life, due to rivets around the edge of the perspex, but worth remembering.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 02:48
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Dave Prossor writes an excellent aviation column in the magazine Australian Aviation, under the title Right Hand Seat. He has given me permission to reproduce part of his article from the June 2019 issue. Quote:

Cessna and Piper aircraft have been the norm for typical flying school and for-hire aircraft in the past. Now we are seeing more Diamond, Cirrus, Sting, Bristell, RV and other aircraft that have a bubble or sliding canopy. That can create a problem. The recent accident to a Cirrus SR20 at Tooradin was a wake-up call. The aircraft went off the runway and ended up on its left side, minus both wings and the tailplane, over a water filled canal. It was fortunate that the right door could be opened to allow the occupants to exit. Had the aircraft inverted it could have been that the two doors could not be opened and the cockpit sink into the water filled canal.

To the credit of the Cirrus makers there is an emergency egress hammer located in the console between the front seats. In the case of a roll-over the hammer can be used to break the windows to exit the machine. Now the Kiwis also had an egress axe or hammer located behind the seat back on the bubble canopy Airtourer line of aircraft that they produced. Smart people.
In America there was the airshow Stearman that had a flip up cockpit cover. The machine ended up upside down on the ground during a low level pass. The pilot could not exit the aircraft due to the design of the cockpit cover. The aircraft burnt and the pilot died.

In the UK there have been several cases of the single seat Tipsy Nipper that have overturned and the pilot could not exit the cockpit due to the bubble canopy. He had to wait for first responders to assist him to exit. Here in Australia there have been several RV aircraft that have had the nose wheel collapse and the aircraft turn over. One was at Atherton Airport in January 2018. Another was at Starke Field, Qld. in January 2017. Both these required first responders to help get the occupants out. One can only guess the outcome if the aircraft had burnt.

.
Another RV, near Albany, WA, in September 2016 had an engine failure and ended up upside down. Fortunately the windscreen broke and enabled the occupants to exit via the break. All these and others give serious consideration to the occupants of bubble canopy type aircraft to carry an emergency egress hammer or break out tool of the cold chisel variety to enable an exit by smashing the canopy to allow an exit in the case of an overturn.

It is said that in an aviation landing emergency only those who plan ahead have a fighting chance of survival. The above are a few reminders of considerations to allow that survival..
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 10:24
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Originally Posted by peterc005
Interesting technique in the RV canopy video. Start near the side frame (guess it is more rigid there), create a crack, and then follow the crack around until a large section breaks away.

Might not be so easy in real life, due to rivets around the edge of the perspex, but worth remembering.
Except that in the video there is no frame, it's just the clear "plastic" piece, the "pilot" is not hanging upside down and only his head and shoulders passes through the resulting void in the canopy part. In a real situation the canopy may well be supporting the aircraft weight and may allow the aircraft to settle further if broken. If it was me, I'd never operate the aircraft on dirt or grass.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 14:41
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Why not just have a roll bar. In low wing sports aircraft it's probably easier to do during construction, but shouldn't be too hard to do on current aircraft.
The CASA clowns might pose a problem for VH rego'd aircraft though.
A link to some images:-

https://www.google.com/search?biw=17...4dUDCAY&uact=5
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 22:33
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Originally Posted by cowl flaps
Why not just have a roll bar. In low wing sports aircraft it's probably easier to do during construction, but shouldn't be too hard to do on current aircraft.
The CASA clowns might pose a problem for VH rego'd aircraft though.
A link to some images:-

https://www.google.com/search?biw=17...4dUDCAY&uact=5
They do effectively have a roll-bar. It’s behind the top of the canopy. The issue is with the angles when you’re upside down.
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