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Gippsland GA-8ís Grounded

Old 22nd Jul 2019, 01:49
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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This from an operator of a fleet of Airvans which I think sums it up nicely:
  1. The recent Service letter from Cessna regarding wing failure on Cessna C210 aircraft gave us a well thought out response from the manufacturer from CASA we got an AWB after two weeks, no AD and poor advice. In this situation the failure was from a known cause and the manufacturer drafted an Inspection procedure to clear the remaining aircraft for flight after 10 hours. The process was clear concise and without CASA interference went well. This does not appear to have happened in this case.
In our day to day operations in General Aviation risk is unavoidable, we must assess each risk and document how we either eliminate it or reduce it to an acceptable level. This documentation is a CASA requirement. Yet in the case of your decision on Saturday there is no evidence this has taken place and the ruling actually refuses to even listen to the industry.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 08:10
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
CASA have enough money for Mahindra to close the factory here and take all work overseas.

My guess is that is what will happen, much to the relief of CASA, because it then removes any accountability for continuing oversight of Gippsaero.

To put that another way, CASA doesn’t have a mandate to foster, or to at least not destroy, Australian businesses. The simplest method for CASA to fulfill the “safe aircraft” part of their “safety” mandate is to prevent aircraft from being built here.

My guess is that CASA will hit Gipps with audits and extremely expensive or impossible demands.
Folks,
I would agree with Sunfish, and we have a precedent with Victa, forced out of business and went to NZ.

It was established at an inquiry many tears ago, CASA admitted to blocking quite legal activities, based on the CASA perception of its own liability if it approved whatever. Just take note, this is not theory, it was answers to carefully crafted questioning by a Government of the day established inquiry ---- that entirely legitimate and responsible industry programs were refuse CASA regulatory approvals based entirely on the basis of CASA's perception of liability of CASA, if any approval were granted.

In other words, CASA's internal views on CASA liability for carrying out its job, and the resulting "unofficial" policies that have done so much damage to the aviation sector over the years. It is not just "mindless" bureaucracy that causes so much of the problem, but "minded" bureaucracy, where self-protection and organisational liability protection are all important. The interests of the industry sector or the economy in general just don't rate in comparison.

I could (but I won't) quote several examples of STC products that CASA refused certification, that went to US, were certified rapidly and at minimum cost by FAA, and were and are very successful.

Some of you will recall, it was only political pressure (John Anderson really cracking the wip) after a Ministerial visit to Gippsland Aeronautics, that the GA-8 got a C.of A at all.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 10:48
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Has CASA actually issued an AD? I don't see it on the website, maybe I missed it. There's a media release saying ops are suspended, but is that considered an AD?

May seem like a minor distinction, except if you are registered in a foreign country where that countries laws require you to abide by Airworthiness Directives from the State of Design.
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Old 22nd Jul 2019, 11:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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No AD on the Airvan that I can find. Grounded by a letter that CASA sent to operators, Anybody care to post the contents of this letter?
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Old 24th Jul 2019, 09:47
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post
No AD on the Airvan that I can find. Grounded by a letter that CASA sent to operators, Anybody care to post the contents of this letter?
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2019L00999

Instrument number CASA 44/19

I, SHANE PATRICK CARMODY, Director of Aviation Safety, on behalf of CASA, make this instrument under regulation 11.245 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998.

[Signed S. Carmody]

Shane Carmody
Director of Aviation Safety

19 July 2019

CASA 44/19 ó Temporary Prohibition of Operations (GippsAero GA8 Airvan) Direction 2019

1 Name

This instrument is CASA 44/19 ó Temporary Prohibition of Operations (GippsAero GA8 Airvan) Direction 2019.

2 Duration

This instrument:

(a) commences at 11:59 pm on the day it is registered; and

(b) is repealed at the end of 15 days after the day it commences.

Note For regulation 11.250 of CASR, the direction in section 3 ceases to be in force on the day this instrument is repealed.

3 Direction

A person must not operate a:

(a) GA8 aircraft; or

(b) GA8ĖTC 320 aircraft;

within Australian territory, or, if the aircraft is Australian registered, in any place outside Australian territory.


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Old 24th Jul 2019, 11:09
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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administrative direction is the new method of aviation regulation...
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Old 24th Jul 2019, 13:15
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Typical that they don't use the 24 hour clock, or specify the time zone, for the direction to commence.

Not very good on precision, are they?
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Old 24th Jul 2019, 21:34
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Typical that they don't use the 24 hour clock, or specify the time zone, for the direction to commence.
Ah that's CASA writing non-prescriptive legislation that isn't one-size-fits-all.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 03:52
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Today's email from CASA doing the rounds

UNCLASSIFIED

To the Operators of GippsAero GA8 and GA8-TC 320 Aircraft

Regarding the recent issue of Instrument number CASA 44/19 Temporary Prohibition of Operations (GippsAero GA8 Airvan) Direction 2019.

Please be advised that CASA is actively working to resolve the issues leading to the precautionary temporary suspension of operations.

It is anticipated that an update to the instrument will be issued as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Pieter van Dijk

Manager Continued Operational Safety

Airworthiness & Engineering Branch

National Operations & Standards

CASA\Aviation Group

p: 02 6217 1417
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 04:59
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Is it grounded any other countries than Oz and Sweden?
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 10:36
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Instrument has now been repealed.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 12:41
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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You have to wonder why CASA didn’t ground the C210 after several recent inflight breakups when it only took one reported breakup to ground the GA-8.

GippsAero GA8 return to air


Date of publication:
25 July 2019The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has lifted a temporary suspension of GippsAero GA8 aircraft operations.

The temporary suspension of GA8 aircraft flights was put in place as a safety precaution following a recent fatal parachuting accident in Sweden.

Based on the limited information available immediately after the accident the sixty-three GA8 aircraft in Australia were grounded, as well as a number operating overseas. The suspension was in effect for five days.

The precautionary suspension was triggered by initial information from the investigation into the Swedish accident which showed the accident aircraft had broken up in flight.

CASA has now received further information that there is no evidence to indicate a potential unsafe condition associated with the aircraft and as such the GA8 aircraft type can be safely allowed to return to normal operations.

A CASA airworthiness engineer is currently observing the accident investigation in Sweden and this has proved to be very beneficial.

CASA will continue to monitor the investigation into the GA8 accident and will take appropriate action should any related safety issues become apparent in the future.

A safety assurance review of Australian parachute operations will also be conducted over coming months.

The parachuting accident happened on 14 July 2019 near UmeŚ in northern Sweden. None of the nine people on board the aircraft survived the accident.

The GA8 is manufactured in Australia by GippsAero, which is based in the Latrobe Valley. The GA8 is a single engine high wing aeroplane with fixed tricycle landing gear. In Australia the GA8 is used in a range of operations including charter, aerial work and parachuting.



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Old 25th Jul 2019, 12:53
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Personally I don't think 4 days suspension is the end of the world if the wing came off........................
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 13:26
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Could be the beginning of the end for GippsAero though. CASA has form when it comes to jerking industry's chain until it withers a la Jabiru/CAMit

Of course the winglets made in Port Melbs are also grounded so CASA should be feeling pleased with a job well done preventing any of this dangerous flying malarkey from taking place. Air safety starts and ends inside a locked hangar...
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 19:03
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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It wasnít safety related it was a penalty related to Gippslands refusal to use aerodynamics or style in any of its designs
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 01:25
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Personally I don't think 4 days suspension is the end of the world if the wing came off.
Asturias
There are a lot of business owners who would disagree with you. There was a great deal of evidence pointing to the cause, and a structural failure "just because" was not on the list. The grounding has caused incredible distress to the business owners and employees of the operators of these aircraft, not least because it was accompanied by so little information.
I asked CASA to eliminate what turned out to be the primary cause and their response was along the lines of "Of course we looked at that, you must think we're stupid, it was definitely something else". That our #1 theory has turned out to be the #1 cause says to me that the grounding was unnecessary and that there needs to be some jobs reviewed at Fort Fumble.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 02:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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That our #1 theory has turned out to be the #1 cause says to me that the grounding was unnecessary and that there needs to be some jobs reviewed at Fort Fumble.
sadly the public service donít work that way.

The person determining the grounding had to weigh up:
1 - make a judgement like yours that there was a non engineering cause, but if the risk -however small - of being wrong and another one spearing in would expose the person to the courts, or
2. Fly to Safety and ground everything until there is irrefutable proof that it was an external factor.

For the public servant, what reward is there for choosing 1 over 2? None, nada, zilch.

Which approach - for the public servant - will guarantee seeing them retiring with super intact?

This is doesnít help small business I know but it is the way of the world in the public service, not just CASA.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 03:25
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post


sadly the public service donít work that way.

The person determining the grounding had to weigh up:
1 - make a judgement like yours that there was a non engineering cause, but if the risk -however small - of being wrong and another one spearing in would expose the person to the courts, or
2. Fly to Safety and ground everything until there is irrefutable proof that it was an external factor.

For the public servant, what reward is there for choosing 1 over 2? None, nada, zilch.

Which approach - for the public servant - will guarantee seeing them retiring with super intact?

This is doesnít help small business I know but it is the way of the world in the public service, not just CASA.
So this relates to the C210 how?
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 03:27
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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You have to wonder why CASA didn’t ground the C210 after several recent inflight breakups when it only took one reported breakup to ground the GA-8.
Country of original certification and construction...
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 03:29
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Compressor stall, then change the Aviation Act to require the public servant to weigh up commercial considerations!
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