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YAK52 Missing Southport

Old 10th Jun 2019, 04:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Current occurrence dual control?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 07:43
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by djpil View Post
No-one thought to mention the possibility of FOD jamming the controls, for example, and instead seemed towards steering to this assumption: "The evidence at the inquest was that the plane was in good mechanical condition having just recently received a new engine and a new propeller."
Originally Posted by The Coroners Report
In this case the inquest was confined to the examination of the elevator trim, a propeller blade and a foreign object defence barrier (FOD) retrieved from the ocean. Mr Hempel and Mr Lovell were found in situ and their bodies were recovered by Queensland Police Service divers. I directed that an examination should be conducted of the FOD to determine if any object had fallen from pockets, such as cameras et cetera, could have penetrated the FOD and thereby interfered with the controls of the aircraft. This was done and the FOD was found to be intact.
Seems to me it was looked at and excluded.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 08:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator View Post
Seems to me it was looked at and excluded.
"In this case the inquest was confined to the examination of the elevator trim, a propeller blade and a foreign object defence barrier (FOD) retrieved from the ocean. .. I directed that an examination should be conducted of the FOD to determine if any object had fallen from pockets, such as cameras et cetera, could have penetrated the FOD and thereby interfered with the controls of the aircraft. This was done and the FOD was found to be intact." The FOD was examined .... specifically the foreign object defence barrier, fine as far as it went but a very limited assessment ... it certainly does not exclude FOD (foreign objects, in general, debris or damage) as the cause.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 00:43
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by djpil View Post
"In this case the inquest was confined to the examination of the elevator trim, a propeller blade and a foreign object defence barrier (FOD) retrieved from the ocean. .. I directed that an examination should be conducted of the FOD to determine if any object had fallen from pockets, such as cameras et cetera, could have penetrated the FOD and thereby interfered with the controls of the aircraft. This was done and the FOD was found to be intact." The FOD was examined .... specifically the foreign object defence barrier, fine as far as it went but a very limited assessment ... it certainly does not exclude FOD (foreign objects, in general, debris or damage) as the cause.
Did they really mean that the "FOD' was intact, or that the "FOD barrier" (as required by AD) was "intact". It changes the meaning somewhat and is a perhaps understandable omission by non-expert investigator.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 03:18
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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It is possible for perfectly serviceable aircraft in the hands of perfectly serviceable pilots to end up broken and dead. Think Tom Moon and Pip Borrman, among others.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 06:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
It is possible for perfectly serviceable aircraft in the hands of perfectly serviceable pilots to end up broken and dead. Think Tom Moon and Pip Borrman, among others.
Errr um, Pips aircraft was anything BUT serviceable!

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Old 11th Jun 2019, 06:34
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Nonetheless, it is possible for perfectly serviceable aircraft in the hands of perfectly serviceable pilots to end up broken and dead.

Perfectly serviceable aircraft can still suffer failures. Perfectly serviceable does not mean guaranteed not to fail. Perfectly serviceable pilots can still make mistakes. Perfectly serviceable does not mean guaranteed not to make mistakes.

Care should be taken not to give the regulator (even more) justification to pursue the impossible regulatory fantasy.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 10:48
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Proposing another possibility here. Healthy fit guy, confident takes young attractve girl for an aerobatic flight/adventure wth the CTA step 3000( allowing 500' clearance) in a high perf A/C that are known to bite if pushed hard enough under certain maneuvers especially at low Alt. Performs a stunt that goes wrong. Not enough height to recover, two dead, showboating perhaps?
I guess at the end of the day the authorities may never know the cause -
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 07:18
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Possibility is especially likely seeing he was witnessed doing the same sort of thing(2 X barrel rolls) five weeks before the accident on take-off out of Dunwich with female(blonde, attractive) as passenger.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 07:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I'll ask again.

Was the aircraft dual control?
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 07:37
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Originally Posted by Possum1 View Post
Possibility is especially likely seeing he was witnessed doing the same sort of thing(2 X barrel rolls) five weeks before the accident on take-off out of Dunwich with female(blonde, attractive) as passenger.
That annoys me very much to hear that! Thanks for posting.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 09:31
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
I'll ask again.

Was the aircraft dual control?
If you click on the link from post #11 and watch the video you can see a rear seat passenger manipulating the controls So yes, it appears it did have dual controls. No idea if the pilot was an instructor.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 09:52
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, Cloudee.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 13:35
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sms777 View Post
The last two have crashed with very experienced pilots at the controls.......just wondering...
Define “very experienced”. Hempel’s was widely known. What was #2’s background, aeros credentials, etc. Was he a qualified instructor? Serious question.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 23:33
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I was going by the words of the President of the Southport Flying Club saying he was "very experienced".
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 00:10
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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If youve allegedly been doing barrel rolls on takeoff with a passenger, youre not giving yourself much of a chance of long term survival.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 01:06
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
As most, but not all, who have flown them would agree, the Yak 52 is a delightful airplane to fly ---- for a "real pilot".
Its low speed handling is such that it can and will catch you out if you neglect its well known and published characteristics, it is in my NSHO, quite predictable, and I think it is an excellent basic trainer.
Given its aerobatic capabilities, this aircraft covers a spectrum of performance that is matched by few others --- I am hedging, because I can't think of even one.
However, given its characteristics, it will "sort the men from the boys" (if I can still use such a non-PC expression) , and if you are too close to Terra Firma it is going to hurt.
Always fly in the middle of the air, the bad things all happen at the edges.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 14:57
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sms777 View Post
I was going by the words of the President of the Southport Flying Club saying he was "very experienced".
Well, hes not likely to confirm there was a cowboy flying out of his exclusive little domain now, is he? (This is in no way alleging the deceased pilot was a cowboy, despite Squawks heresay.)
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 21:53
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MakeItHappenCaptain View Post


Well, hes not likely to confirm there was a cowboy flying out of his exclusive little domain now, is he? (This is in no way alleging the deceased pilot was a cowboy, despite Squawks heresay.)
Not my hearsay, I was re-quoting an earlier post.
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Old 17th Jun 2019, 05:11
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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This NZ Yak-52 crash was suspected to have been caused by FOD - a screwdriver was found out n the wreckage.

https://www.caa.govt.nz/public-and-m...ak-accident-2/

I have a few hours in a Yak-52 and I absolutely agree with LeadSled’s comments. A delight to fly but like all high performance aircraft, it can ‘bite’ the inexperienced or the foolhardy.
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