My health record
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“Opt in” - wow, now that would be an idea!
Every official argument I’ve heard in favour of MHR is that it supposedly exists to help you.
Yes, there will be a small percentage of people with particular ailments who could or would benefit from MHR. So if it might help you, fine, go for it. Those people should be able to opt in.
But for the rest of society it’s unlikely to help you, but your data will flow across IT systems beyond your control, and may one day hurt you. And if you think that data will be deletable in the future, then I have a harbour bridge to sell you.
I listened to the head of MHR on ABC radio yesterday trying to explain why MHR was good, and it appeared from his conversation that most of the benefit of MHR was actually about protecting doctors from litigation rather than any actual benefit to the patient.
He wasn’t even hiding the fact FFS.
Now, he is an ex-director of the AMA, so don’t think for one minute that he cares about patients - he has spent a large part of his working life protecting the pay, conditions and interests of doctors. He’s obviously done a good job at that, and maybe AFAP or AIPA should employ him, but I digress. My point is, even he couldn’t provide a good argument for why average Australian’s should have a MHR that would actually benefit them.
Here’s a hypothetical: If my 12yo son with a MHR has a stress-related migraine this year, and we seek treatment or medication for it, and it goes away and never recurs, it will be on his MHR record.
If, 10 years later, he gets his CPL and hours and applies for a job with You Beaut Airlines, they will have access to that record. They may have a policy of not employing pilots with a history of migraines, even if he has a Class 1 medical, and it only happened once, 10 years ago.
Now before you say that Airline recruiting departments don’t or shouldn’t have access to MHR, who knows who will have access in 10 years’ time? The Government reserves the right to change the rules at any time without your permission.
And even if they don’t “officially” have access to MHR, major airlines employ doctors, and doctors have un-fettered access to your records - so the reality is, the airlines will have access to your records. In fact, there are so many health professionals with access to your records, that odds are, if you walk into a crowded train carriage, at least two people in that train carriage will have access to your record.
Airlines could even employ (or have access to) emergency doctors who could access your so-called “hidden” or “deleted” records.
Note: I’m not implicating CASA in this hypothetical, that’s another discussion, I’m pointing out that MHR could be used against you commercially, or for discrimination, way outside the objectives being “sold” to us, even under the current rules, let alone any future rules.
So “Opt Out” unless you have a good reason to be “In”.
And for the sake of your kids, unless you have a damned good reason to have them in, opt them out. Let them opt in down the track if they choose to do so, when they become of age, and can make their own decisions.
At least we are being given an opt-out option at this point in time, as adults. What about our kids? They should be in charge of their own digital future.
Every official argument I’ve heard in favour of MHR is that it supposedly exists to help you.
Yes, there will be a small percentage of people with particular ailments who could or would benefit from MHR. So if it might help you, fine, go for it. Those people should be able to opt in.
But for the rest of society it’s unlikely to help you, but your data will flow across IT systems beyond your control, and may one day hurt you. And if you think that data will be deletable in the future, then I have a harbour bridge to sell you.
I listened to the head of MHR on ABC radio yesterday trying to explain why MHR was good, and it appeared from his conversation that most of the benefit of MHR was actually about protecting doctors from litigation rather than any actual benefit to the patient.
He wasn’t even hiding the fact FFS.
Now, he is an ex-director of the AMA, so don’t think for one minute that he cares about patients - he has spent a large part of his working life protecting the pay, conditions and interests of doctors. He’s obviously done a good job at that, and maybe AFAP or AIPA should employ him, but I digress. My point is, even he couldn’t provide a good argument for why average Australian’s should have a MHR that would actually benefit them.
Here’s a hypothetical: If my 12yo son with a MHR has a stress-related migraine this year, and we seek treatment or medication for it, and it goes away and never recurs, it will be on his MHR record.
If, 10 years later, he gets his CPL and hours and applies for a job with You Beaut Airlines, they will have access to that record. They may have a policy of not employing pilots with a history of migraines, even if he has a Class 1 medical, and it only happened once, 10 years ago.
Now before you say that Airline recruiting departments don’t or shouldn’t have access to MHR, who knows who will have access in 10 years’ time? The Government reserves the right to change the rules at any time without your permission.
And even if they don’t “officially” have access to MHR, major airlines employ doctors, and doctors have un-fettered access to your records - so the reality is, the airlines will have access to your records. In fact, there are so many health professionals with access to your records, that odds are, if you walk into a crowded train carriage, at least two people in that train carriage will have access to your record.
Airlines could even employ (or have access to) emergency doctors who could access your so-called “hidden” or “deleted” records.
Note: I’m not implicating CASA in this hypothetical, that’s another discussion, I’m pointing out that MHR could be used against you commercially, or for discrimination, way outside the objectives being “sold” to us, even under the current rules, let alone any future rules.
So “Opt Out” unless you have a good reason to be “In”.
And for the sake of your kids, unless you have a damned good reason to have them in, opt them out. Let them opt in down the track if they choose to do so, when they become of age, and can make their own decisions.
At least we are being given an opt-out option at this point in time, as adults. What about our kids? They should be in charge of their own digital future.
Last edited by Derfred; 29th Jan 2019 at 13:18.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did you opt to remain In? Did they tell you about “secondary use of data”? What could that be about?
They’re still admitting that they will use your data for other purposes (hey, guess what, it’s not just for your benefit!)
Translation: We will release your private medical data to other organisations for other purposes. At some undisclosed time in the future, we will convene a government commitee to approve it.
I look forward to seeing a job offer for “Chairman: Data Governance Board... amongst other responsibilities you will be responsible for overseeing the approval of data sharing with other organisations ... this highly privileged role will be well remunerated, with generous travel and pension benefits.”
They’re still admitting that they will use your data for other purposes (hey, guess what, it’s not just for your benefit!)
MHR wesite: The principles contained within the Framework to guide the secondary uses of data will become law (within the My Health Record Rules). A Data Governance Board will be established to approve the release of any data in line with these rules.
I look forward to seeing a job offer for “Chairman: Data Governance Board... amongst other responsibilities you will be responsible for overseeing the approval of data sharing with other organisations ... this highly privileged role will be well remunerated, with generous travel and pension benefits.”
Last edited by Derfred; 29th Jan 2019 at 14:23.
All it will take is one ATSB documented aviation medically related RPT incident and the General Public will demand that CASA Avmed be given access to E Health records of pilots. The Government will comply in seconds - for “safety” you know.
The trawling by Avmed will start immediately and what a rich haul they will find. Believe it or not, some Doctors are incompetent ratbags. There is no telling what irrelevant garbage is in your medical records right now.
For example, google Avmed and cancer. See what can be demanded of you, ladies, if you are unlucky enough to have been stricken with breast cancer, even if you are now totally clear.
My wife asked me about learning to fly last week. She has had cancer. I told her not to bother. The ongoing medical tests required by Avmed would probably cost more than the training.
The trawling by Avmed will start immediately and what a rich haul they will find. Believe it or not, some Doctors are incompetent ratbags. There is no telling what irrelevant garbage is in your medical records right now.
For example, google Avmed and cancer. See what can be demanded of you, ladies, if you are unlucky enough to have been stricken with breast cancer, even if you are now totally clear.
My wife asked me about learning to fly last week. She has had cancer. I told her not to bother. The ongoing medical tests required by Avmed would probably cost more than the training.
Last edited by Sunfish; 29th Jan 2019 at 15:52.
I suspect that the CASA forms we have all signed as part of our medicals gives CASA the right to access myehealth. I suspect that the declarations we have signed circumvents the government privacy provisions. Does anyone know?
This reminds me of when CASA applied to be able to access our “metadata” including phone tracking and SMS’s etc..... and they were denied it.
“all that will be recorded are a few prescription details, not diagnostic notes” yadda yadda. That makes it worse. What is CASA to make from a prescription for Valium?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-...an-31/10759956
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-...an-31/10759956
Derfred, perhaps my comment at post #40 may make far more sense to you if read in conjunction with my post #32?
Plus Squawk7700's at #37 and #39. And particularly KittyKatKaper's at #38.
Plus Squawk7700's at #37 and #39. And particularly KittyKatKaper's at #38.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People who provide access to their records for what ever reason should get a discount on health insurance premiums , tax concessions and rebates ? It’s true some info may be misused but no system is perfect , maybe this one is not right but overall I’m for it and if a few people have to use their time to manage an illness rather than hide it then maybe that’s a good thing . I’m also a fan of national ID’s. Once again I’ve nothing to hide and provides better security .
I've finally managed to cancel My Health Record but no thanks to their pathetic, unworkable website. I ended up ringing the 1800 number which was helpful.
KittyKatKaper, I asked why I had a record and was told it originated from 01/06/16. So perhaps I was one of those that unknowingly took part in their trial? I'd have a lot more faith in government bureaucracies if they actually practised transparency.
KittyKatKaper, I asked why I had a record and was told it originated from 01/06/16. So perhaps I was one of those that unknowingly took part in their trial? I'd have a lot more faith in government bureaucracies if they actually practised transparency.
Toruk Macto: “i’ve got nothing to hide”.....And then one day you are hit by a snowboarder, or a jet ski. You momentarily lose consciousness and you report same to a questioning intern at a treatment centre, it was only for a second or so but you open your big mouth.
Congratulations! According to CASA your E Health records now say you suffered a brain injury! Good luck trying to get your medical certificate back! I gave up skiing after 30 years of it because of this one threat - a skiing accident comprising my certificate.
Congratulations! According to CASA your E Health records now say you suffered a brain injury! Good luck trying to get your medical certificate back! I gave up skiing after 30 years of it because of this one threat - a skiing accident comprising my certificate.
Thread Starter
As a starter of this thread I am very interested to read everyone's comments and fears regarding this problem with my health record , it is exactly the same type of comments that I was exposed to by people at the airport last weekend and the reason for starting this thread.
One of the guys from the airport is also on this discussion group and he called me about 30 minutes ago with some comments but didn't want to be identified, he has asked me to relay his story below is a warning to everybody about what could happen with CASA getting access to your health records. (I hope I have detailed everything he wanted me to mention below but he would not put pen to paper and write anything to avoid leaving a digital record and that is why he has asked me to do it for him)
He has an RV, two seats which is VH registered and flies it as a recreational pilot during his early years of retirement, I am guessing he is about 65. He travels all around Australia and seems to be fairly fit and healthy to me from what I've seen.
He mentioned the situation where about three years ago his wife complained about his snoring so his doctor sent him off for a sleep study through Snore Australia. He went and did the sleep study and was reported that he had dozens of episodes every hour and needed to be on CPAP (I think that is what it is called) otherwise he would die in the next five years.
The study was done through a private provider who are owned the same business that imports the machines, cells oxygen and everything else to do with sleep problems. It's in their best interest to test people and find them needing additional resources which of course they can provide $$$
He said that he didn't believe any of this diagnosis and went off a couple of months later to a university sleep study who found that he only had a deviated septum from a fight in his youth where is nose got broken and he did not have any sleep episodes at all. This diagnosis was completely different to the private provider.
This is an ideal example of why the "my health record" system should not be accessible to CASA.
We have an individual who is fairly young, reasonably fit and only weighs, I am guessing about 65-70 kg which is really skinny for his six-foot frame.
He went and had a sleep study by a private provider and was diagnosed as being close to death and needed to start on all sorts of sleep equipment and oxygen support otherwise he would die fairly quickly from sleep-related problems including heart attack etc.
Then a university sleep study test was undertaken and they found that none of the reported events were true and he only needed an operation to straighten his nasal passage which he says he is not going to worry about because he doesn't sleep in the same room as his wife anymore anyway ?.
This leaves a very big question of misdiagnosis for commercial gain !
This gentleman was misdiagnosed by a private medical provider who has an interest in diagnosing people incorrectly because it boosts their business, but these records would go on to his health record and of course be available to people like CASA.
I don't know if CASA target people with sleep abnormalities, but I am guessing they probably do, and they would probably go off the first sleep study and stop this guy from flying even though the second sleep study by an independent university said that he didn't suffer a sleep disorder at all.
It is misdiagnosis like this which is a real concern for anyone's medical records being publicly available.
Not every medical provider has a strict moral standard to adhere to when they are owned, funded or receive kickbacks from medical suppliers or drug producers.
But, it seems now none of this will matter to CASA who will simply go on their merry way and stamp this pilots logbook as "not fit to fly"
Another comment that is coming back to me from the weekend at the airport was from a guy who lost his wife about five years ago. They had been married at the time for nearly 40 years and after his wife's passing he went into a depression for about six months and lost interest in doing anything. He quite openly said that he sought help because he had a feeling of not wanting to go on and they diagnosed him with depression and medicated him for about six months which allowed his body to heal and move on from this life changing event. He says that today he feels better than when he was married (he says this jokingly) but this record of depression and medication regardless of circumstance would go on his health record. Would this also prohibited him from being a valid person to hold a recreational aviation licence ?
I am sure a lot of these things can be retested to a standard which may satisfy CASA but it is extremely expensive and beyond the income and resources of most of the people at our airfield who are largely retired and do a few circuits every week to keep flying for nothing more than enjoyment and recreation.
One of the guys from the airport is also on this discussion group and he called me about 30 minutes ago with some comments but didn't want to be identified, he has asked me to relay his story below is a warning to everybody about what could happen with CASA getting access to your health records. (I hope I have detailed everything he wanted me to mention below but he would not put pen to paper and write anything to avoid leaving a digital record and that is why he has asked me to do it for him)
He has an RV, two seats which is VH registered and flies it as a recreational pilot during his early years of retirement, I am guessing he is about 65. He travels all around Australia and seems to be fairly fit and healthy to me from what I've seen.
He mentioned the situation where about three years ago his wife complained about his snoring so his doctor sent him off for a sleep study through Snore Australia. He went and did the sleep study and was reported that he had dozens of episodes every hour and needed to be on CPAP (I think that is what it is called) otherwise he would die in the next five years.
The study was done through a private provider who are owned the same business that imports the machines, cells oxygen and everything else to do with sleep problems. It's in their best interest to test people and find them needing additional resources which of course they can provide $$$
He said that he didn't believe any of this diagnosis and went off a couple of months later to a university sleep study who found that he only had a deviated septum from a fight in his youth where is nose got broken and he did not have any sleep episodes at all. This diagnosis was completely different to the private provider.
This is an ideal example of why the "my health record" system should not be accessible to CASA.
We have an individual who is fairly young, reasonably fit and only weighs, I am guessing about 65-70 kg which is really skinny for his six-foot frame.
He went and had a sleep study by a private provider and was diagnosed as being close to death and needed to start on all sorts of sleep equipment and oxygen support otherwise he would die fairly quickly from sleep-related problems including heart attack etc.
Then a university sleep study test was undertaken and they found that none of the reported events were true and he only needed an operation to straighten his nasal passage which he says he is not going to worry about because he doesn't sleep in the same room as his wife anymore anyway ?.
This leaves a very big question of misdiagnosis for commercial gain !
This gentleman was misdiagnosed by a private medical provider who has an interest in diagnosing people incorrectly because it boosts their business, but these records would go on to his health record and of course be available to people like CASA.
I don't know if CASA target people with sleep abnormalities, but I am guessing they probably do, and they would probably go off the first sleep study and stop this guy from flying even though the second sleep study by an independent university said that he didn't suffer a sleep disorder at all.
It is misdiagnosis like this which is a real concern for anyone's medical records being publicly available.
Not every medical provider has a strict moral standard to adhere to when they are owned, funded or receive kickbacks from medical suppliers or drug producers.
But, it seems now none of this will matter to CASA who will simply go on their merry way and stamp this pilots logbook as "not fit to fly"
Another comment that is coming back to me from the weekend at the airport was from a guy who lost his wife about five years ago. They had been married at the time for nearly 40 years and after his wife's passing he went into a depression for about six months and lost interest in doing anything. He quite openly said that he sought help because he had a feeling of not wanting to go on and they diagnosed him with depression and medicated him for about six months which allowed his body to heal and move on from this life changing event. He says that today he feels better than when he was married (he says this jokingly) but this record of depression and medication regardless of circumstance would go on his health record. Would this also prohibited him from being a valid person to hold a recreational aviation licence ?
I am sure a lot of these things can be retested to a standard which may satisfy CASA but it is extremely expensive and beyond the income and resources of most of the people at our airfield who are largely retired and do a few circuits every week to keep flying for nothing more than enjoyment and recreation.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good to hear these people got the help they needed , even if road to identifying the correct problem was not ideal . I also had a diagnosis of sleep apnea then diagnosed as deviated septum after further test , surgery corrected it , sleep well now and lost weight . Initial request for sleep test was aviation dr and he supported me through process even finding better surgeon . Depression is interesting one , after German wings it’s been pushed underground and that’s dangerous in my opinion , it can be treated and if it can’t then those people should not be flying . Mental heath might be next big thing the industry needs to face maybe after fatigue ? Substance abuse is another issue , denial being biggest issue . Having proffesional medical people sharing information so big picture is available might be best way to identify these deseases This system may not be right but I think there is a place for something like it .
unfortunately Toruk macto “professional medical people” is an oxymoron. You suffer from a totally unfounded trust in the medical profession. There are some stupid, greedy or both doctors out there and if one of them writes garbage on your MHR then your medical certificate is done for.
‘’I can confirm the gist of mcoates story. Sleep apnoea is a growth industry in the USA and Australia to the point where I believe AOPA USA had to take action. CASA has geared up to do the same thing and demand testing as well. That is why they want DAMES to measure height, weight and body mass index (BMI). That is also why “helpful” DAMES will tell you to lose a little weight - CASA will order sleep apnoea tests if your BMI is too high.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...to-take-effect
This is the same type of scandal/fraud as diagnosing male kids with ADHD and prescribing ritalin. Once that fraudulent diagnosis is on your kids MHR they can kiss a flying career goodbye. Same trick with Autism. Some kids just can’t stand school classroom learning styles and greedy stupid doctors then label them with a disability.
I speak as someone who was on the fringes of the medical/ pharmaceutical industry and i can tell you it’s populated with just as many devils as there are saints. Just as many idiots as geniuses. The MHR Lacks security and quality control features that are under the control of the public.
‘’I can confirm the gist of mcoates story. Sleep apnoea is a growth industry in the USA and Australia to the point where I believe AOPA USA had to take action. CASA has geared up to do the same thing and demand testing as well. That is why they want DAMES to measure height, weight and body mass index (BMI). That is also why “helpful” DAMES will tell you to lose a little weight - CASA will order sleep apnoea tests if your BMI is too high.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...to-take-effect
This is the same type of scandal/fraud as diagnosing male kids with ADHD and prescribing ritalin. Once that fraudulent diagnosis is on your kids MHR they can kiss a flying career goodbye. Same trick with Autism. Some kids just can’t stand school classroom learning styles and greedy stupid doctors then label them with a disability.
I speak as someone who was on the fringes of the medical/ pharmaceutical industry and i can tell you it’s populated with just as many devils as there are saints. Just as many idiots as geniuses. The MHR Lacks security and quality control features that are under the control of the public.
Last edited by Sunfish; 30th Jan 2019 at 04:30.
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,674
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did you opt to remain In? Did they tell you about “secondary use of data”? What could that be about?
They’re still admitting that they will use your data for other purposes (hey, guess what, it’s not just for your benefit!)
They’re still admitting that they will use your data for other purposes (hey, guess what, it’s not just for your benefit!)
"When you sacrifice privacy for security, you deserve neither."
(apologies to Mr Benjamin Franklin)
For those of you unfamiliar, look up the term “managed care” and study the abomination that is the American health care system, for that is where the medical/ pharmaceutical industry is trying to drag you. ‘my health record ‘ is a step in that direction because it provides a means for non medical bureaucrats to have visibility into your health.
The next step after that is to use the information in your MHR to make bureaucratic decisions about your future treatment options as is the case in the USA. This is currently the province of medical practitioners only but MHR by its very nature, allows non medical bureaucrats into the process. These decisions determine length and quality of life. For example, unofficially if you’re a smoker, the medicos place you at the very bottom of the list for any transplant operation. American “health managers” are not doctors, they are ruthless deniers of medical care to insured persons on the flimsiest pretext.
health economists are are not known for compassion. You have been warned.
The next step after that is to use the information in your MHR to make bureaucratic decisions about your future treatment options as is the case in the USA. This is currently the province of medical practitioners only but MHR by its very nature, allows non medical bureaucrats into the process. These decisions determine length and quality of life. For example, unofficially if you’re a smoker, the medicos place you at the very bottom of the list for any transplant operation. American “health managers” are not doctors, they are ruthless deniers of medical care to insured persons on the flimsiest pretext.
health economists are are not known for compassion. You have been warned.
Government agencies are using a loophole to access individuals’ metadata without warrants ...
At least 80 government authorities, from federal and state law enforcers to departments and local councils, are using legal loopholes to lodge 350,000 requests a year for access to Australians’ telecommunications metadata. These requests are made mostly without warrants and often without external oversight, sidestepping the strict national access regime established controversially three years ago.
...
The inquiry by the PJCIS has been told dozens of agencies are routinely bypassing the existing restrictions in the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act, which permits only 22 security agencies to request access to basic unencrypted data.
Instead, many more across government are requesting subscriber details, including names and addresses and other details such as phone records, call durations and locations, using alternative statutory provisions that allow them to bypass the act’s restrictions - including, potentially, agencies among the 22 listed. These provisions allow them to access the information faster and without the oversight of traditional watchdog organisations.
...
Communications Alliance chief John Stanton said a member survey had found at least 80 government bodies had requested unencrypted data by alternative routes using a different law, the Telecommunications Act.
“That’s an everyday occurrence, roughly in the order of 350,000 times a year, Stanton said.
...
At least 80 government authorities, from federal and state law enforcers to departments and local councils, are using legal loopholes to lodge 350,000 requests a year for access to Australians’ telecommunications metadata. These requests are made mostly without warrants and often without external oversight, sidestepping the strict national access regime established controversially three years ago.
...
The inquiry by the PJCIS has been told dozens of agencies are routinely bypassing the existing restrictions in the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act, which permits only 22 security agencies to request access to basic unencrypted data.
Instead, many more across government are requesting subscriber details, including names and addresses and other details such as phone records, call durations and locations, using alternative statutory provisions that allow them to bypass the act’s restrictions - including, potentially, agencies among the 22 listed. These provisions allow them to access the information faster and without the oversight of traditional watchdog organisations.
...
Communications Alliance chief John Stanton said a member survey had found at least 80 government bodies had requested unencrypted data by alternative routes using a different law, the Telecommunications Act.
“That’s an everyday occurrence, roughly in the order of 350,000 times a year, Stanton said.
...
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,967
Received 92 Likes
on
53 Posts
Bloggsie; Just because you are not paranoid. it doesn't mean that they are not out to get you!
But quite seriously; Sunfish is quite on the mark, from what I have heard from various Medicos over the last twelve months or so.
But quite seriously; Sunfish is quite on the mark, from what I have heard from various Medicos over the last twelve months or so.
I tried to opt out the kids yesterday and all I got was an error.