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Flight training for AU licence in non VH reg

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Flight training for AU licence in non VH reg

Old 25th Jan 2019, 07:05
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Flight training for AU licence in non VH reg

Can an AU licenced Flight Instructor provide endorsements or dual instruction in a non VH reg aircraft for which they do not have a foreign licence validation?

Scenario: I have a Thai registered aircraft, and operate that aircraft via a Thai validation on my AU licence., I wish to get some dual IR instruction or a BFR while I am in Australia with the aircraft, does the Instructor need to be Thai validated, or if I am PIC then is everything copacetic? Not an Issue under Thai law, but I can't find a requirement in the CARs that specifically address instruction in a non VH reg aircraft.

Any pointers to the appropriate rules would be much appreciated.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 22:12
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Memory tells me that a CASA licence holder is permitted to fly a foreign registered aircraft within Australia, which includes the appropriate privileges of his/her licence, but my memory doesn't stretch to giving you a reference sorry! That may mean an appropriately rated instructor could do some types of flying training with you in your aircraft. The roadblock to most training activities will be CASR 61.195 and some associated regs, I think you will have trouble finding a Part 141 or 142 holder who is permitted to exercise their certificate privileges in a foreign registered aircraft, or at the very least who is prepared to argue the point with CASA when challenged about it.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 03:25
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Even though the foreign authority with oversight of the aircraft may permit it to be flown by an Australian licensed pilot, for any commercial activity in this great land of ours is the requirement for an AOC. As training of this type in Australia is done under either Part 141 or 142, my bet is that it would be a non-starter if you want the Flight Review to be recognised by CASA. Your aircraft would have to be attached to the AOC.

On the other hand, if you only want the review to be recognised by the country of registry, it could depend on whether your civil aviation authority is flexible in these matters. Way back in the past I conducted flight reviews on an American pilot in an N registered aircraft in a third country. I did not hold a FAA instructor rating, but they accepted the equivalent foreign qualification for the purpose of the review. Better than having their pilot fly in a third country with no review I suppose was their reasoning. A simple logbook entry was all they required.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 19:37
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Thanks, so design endorsements probably yes as they don't have to be under 141 or 142, which count as a flight review, but actual flight reviews and ratings no.

Does that make sense? (My interpretation, not the obtuse nature of the rules)
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 04:55
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The issue I can see is the flight review form actually has the VH part of the callsign filled in already. The regulations leave some room for interpretation, but the paperwork strongly implies what casa expects. Not saying itís insurmountable, but not easy. I do agree the holder of an Australian pilots licence can operate a foreign registered aircraft in Australia.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 05:01
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Rule 303,
What you asking for is: Can you use an Australian instructor to carry out one or more functions under Thai law, while in Australia..
That is a matter for the Thai Authority, not CASA.
The aircraft is flying legally in Australia, you are licensed to fly it (anywhere) but you need a check required by the Thai authority?

Or is it that you want to use a foreign registered aircraft to conduct training for a CASA requirement, of a CASA BFR ----- the two are very different things.
In the latter case, the aircraft will have to be entered on the AOC of where you want to do the CASA training ---- this is possible, but the time and cost means that the provisions would normally only be used in an airline scenario.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 05:17
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Or is it that you want to use a foreign registered aircraft to conduct training for a CASA requirement, of a CASA BFR ----- the two are very different things.
In the latter case, the aircraft will have to be entered on the AOC of where you want to do the CASA training ---- this is possible, but the time and cost means that the provisions would normally only be used in an airline scenario.
For a BFR or Type Rating and GA aircraft I don't think so?

The advice I had from CASA on this a few years ago was: "provided you can assure the aircraft has a valid CofA, CofR and is operated in accordance with its approved system of maintenance from its country of registration".

In my case it was a ZK registered aircraft and I wanted to run off the hours remaining on its maintenance release before putting the aircraft in for a refurb including paint and transferring rego. During that period I wanted to get a third party instructor rated in the aircraft, who was not so keen unless he had CASA clearance!

And during the period I also had some defect rectification, which I cleared with both CASA & NZCAA, which I signed off as an Aussie LAME, both CASA and NZCAA at the time stated it was permitted "provided I had access to, and complied with, the aircraft's approved system of maintenance". Mind you AUS/NZ have the Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Treaty, so it may be different for a Thai registered aircraft in terms of maintenance.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 06:00
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Rule 303,
Or is it that you want to use a foreign registered aircraft to conduct training for a CASA requirement, of a CASA BFR ----- the two are very different things.
In the latter case, the aircraft will have to be entered on the AOC of where you want to do the CASA training ---- this is possible, but the time and cost means that the provisions would normally only be used in an airline scenario.

Tootle pip!!
Under part 61 an AFR can be conducted without needed a part 141/142 organisation, and therefore without an AOC, provided no training is delivered.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 23:48
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Originally Posted by Ia8825 View Post


Under part 61 an AFR can be conducted without needed a part 141/142 organisation, and therefore without an AOC, provided no training is delivered.
So, we are not quite certain what Rule 303 wants to actually achieve?
However, the above may help.
Re. NZ, because of the TTMRA and the close relationship of the two sets of regulations (not in style and content, but the TTMRA) AU/NZ is a special case.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 03:53
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My issue was more one of forward planning. Under Thai law I just need my AU PPL validated that it is current. (i.e. Medical and BFR)
Thai law has no concept of design endorsements for Aircraft less than 5700kg for PPL

I can meet the PPL BFR requirement for the AU licence by doing a design endorsement with an AU CFI
The design endorsement doesn't need to be done by a Part 141/142 Organisation
So I can use my HS reg for the design endorsement, which effectively ticks the BFR box, but I can't use it to actually book a BFR.

I was hoping I could use my HS reg for my IFR rating, but from the sound of things, the dual portion and the flight test would need to be done in a VH reg.

Just trying to workout how to use my own aircraft for getting further instruction.

Thanks
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