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Snoozing pilot misses landing - The Australian

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Snoozing pilot misses landing - The Australian

Old 26th Nov 2018, 13:38
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Snoozing pilot misses landing - The Australian

Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...b67105b80e74b1

Snoozing pilot misses landing

An investigation has been launched into an incident in which a pilot fell asleep during a one-hour charter flight, resulting in the aircraft overflying its destination by 46km. The 6.21am Vortex Air flight from Devonport to King Island on November 8

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Old 26th Nov 2018, 18:27
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Originally Posted by LKinnon View Post
Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...b67105b80e74b1

Snoozing pilot misses landing

An investigation has been launched into an incident in which a pilot fell asleep during a one-hour charter flight, resulting in the aircraft overflying its destination by 46km. The 6.21am Vortex Air flight from Devonport to King Island on November 8
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 19:40
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ATSB investigation
Investigation: AO-2018-075 - Pilot incapacitation involving Piper PA-31, VH-TWU, near King Island, Tasmania, on 8 November 2018
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 19:59
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Originally Posted by LKinnon View Post
Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water
Why is that exactly? Do you know something about the company or itsí pilots that we donít? What are you suggesting here? Why ďespecially over water?Ē If the pilot is over land and asleep does that make the flight safer?

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Old 26th Nov 2018, 20:31
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Need to be a brave passenger to fly Tasfast/Vortex Air, especially over water.
What a dumb statement. It would appear (I don’t know) that the pilot was the sole occupant. A passenger would have changed the entire demographic of the flight. Again, I don’t know but isn’t this freight run?

I am so over “experts” making statements on incidents before the investigation is completed.
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 21:16
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Not just over water. This is the same company that had a little bingle with some bollards at Mount Hotham and flew home with pax onboard. Also landed at a private ALA that was closed due runway maintenance. Donít know how they missed the large Xís on the runway that were made out of tyres.
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 21:32
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A lot of pilots would have fallen asleep briefly especially in these sorts of Ops where it's an early morning dep & that drone in smooth air would dull ones senses at times, fatigue is a hideous thing, ALL humans suffer from it! Hope they don't crucify the guy, gets help & learns from it as other can do:-)
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 22:10
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post

Why is that exactly? Do you know something about the company or itsí pilots that we donít? What are you suggesting here? Why ďespecially over water?Ē If the pilot is over land and asleep does that make the flight safer?
I have experience with the Vortex/Tasfast operations and am not surprised about this at all. Last time I looked their planes were held together by speed tape and fencing wire. The Tuckers have a "colorful" history.

The difference is that flying over land is likely to offer better "premature" landing options than flying over water.

Poorly maintained fleet, inexperienced pilots, inadequate management, Are they still charging for training and ICUS time?
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 22:41
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Originally Posted by LKinnon View Post
I have experience with the Vortex/Tasfast operations and am not surprised about this at all. Last time I looked their planes were held together by speed tape and fencing wire. The Tuckers have a "colorful" history.

The difference is that flying over land is likely to offer better "premature" landing options than flying over water.

Poorly maintained fleet, inexperienced pilots, inadequate management, Are they still charging for training and ICUS time?
Quite powerful words you are using there.

So youíre saying that due to pilot inexperience and poor maintenance, plus the fact that the pilot may have had to pay for their own training, has caused the pilot to fall asleep?

I hope that LKinnon is not a derivative of your real name.
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 22:47
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Talking

Pilot flies nearly 50km past destination after 'falling asleep mid-air'

Despite this, the jet landed safely at 6.21am at King Island Airport
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 22:58
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post

Quite powerful words you are using there.

So you’re saying that due to pilot inexperience and poor maintenance, plus the fact that the pilot may have had to pay for their own training, has caused the pilot to fall asleep?

I hope that LKinnon is not a derivative of your real name.
At Moorabbin walk past the Tasfast/Vortex planes and have a look for yourself. A lot of has previously been written here about "ICUS" and "training" programs run by these people, do a search.

What would have happened if the Tasfast/Vortex pilot had not woken in time? He would have run out of fuel over Bass Strait and the wreck would never be found.

It is not speculation, the plane was uncontrolled and headed out to sea because the pilot was asleep. I don't recall a similar situation with any other charter operator ever.

I would never fly Vortex/Tasfast nor would I let any of my family do so either.

Last edited by LKinnon; 26th Nov 2018 at 23:02. Reason: .
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Old 26th Nov 2018, 23:06
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Originally Posted by LKinnon View Post
At Moorabbin walk past the Tasfast/Vortex planes and have a look for yourself. A lot of has previously been written here about "ICUS" and "training" programs run by these people, do a search.

What would have happened if the Tasfast/Vortex pilot had not woken in time? He would have run out of fuel over Bass Strait and the wreck would never be found.

It is not speculation, the plane was uncontrolled and headed out to sea because the pilot was asleep. I don't recall a similar situation with any other charter operator ever.

I would never fly Vortex/Tasfast nor would I let any of my family do so either.
But how did an allegedly poorly maintained plane and allegedly poor management of the company cause the pilot to fall asleep? Are you saying that carbon monoxide entered the cabin due to maintenance issues or perhaps the pilot was forced to illegally work additional hours, thus casing him to be fatigued? Where is the link?
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 00:08
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LKinnon please show us the axe you appear to be grinding so fervently !!
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 00:20
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Originally Posted by On eyre View Post
LKinnon please show us the axe you appear to be grinding so fervently !!
I have no specific axe to grind, however I've seen the Tasfast/Vortex Air operations as an outsider for several years and wondered about safety there. Lots of little things that seemed to happen consistently over the years and concerned me.

Once I had a look thru the windscreen of a Chieftain they operate for freight and noticed that the dash panel seemed to held together with wire, with old and decrepit avionics that I wouldn't trust. Also have seen tyres so bald the belts could be seen.

Other little things, like the side perspex windows covered with some sort of adhesive sheets. I assume this was because it was cheaper than replacing the perspex windows.

Other things that have worried me are the Vortex/Tasfast pilots regularly taxiing fast than I thought safe on the apron and parking in an ad-hoc manner outside of designated parking bays.

My guess is that CASA will be reviewing the Tasfast/Vortex Air Fatigue Management procedures. If I was a pilot there I'd be expecting drug and alcohol testing by CASA some time soon too.

Looks like this story has now been picked up the international media too, including CNN.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 01:09
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Other little things, like the side perspex windows covered with some sort of adhesive sheets. I assume this was because it was cheaper than replacing the perspex windows.
Donít be so quick to jump to conclusions. The adhesive you speak of helps to keep the sun off the live crayfish as they need to stay cool and calm to be transported. All is not necessarily what it seems.


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Old 27th Nov 2018, 01:22
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Originally Posted by LKinnon View Post
with old and decrepit avionics that I wouldn't trust
.
Interesting observation. I made an enquiry a number of years back about doing my MECIR there as they were offering it in their chieftains and asked if their fleet was fitted with RMI and HSI. They rudely responded that some were and weren't but I shouldn't need them as an IFR pilot should be able to fly without them.

While the above statement is true, most IFR training in the 21st century is done using these instruments with only a bit of limited panel work done without. Not too sure I like the idea of an IFR charter operator conducting operations at night over Bass Strait in poor weather without an HSI.

Once again yes, its not mandatory and charter guys should be able to fly without them but they are pretty standard kit these days even in crusty old chieftains and it says a lot about an operator when they don't do at least some upgrades to modernise 50 year old instrumentation.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 01:29
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Same Tucker's as Promair formerly of Welshpool?


Promair PA31 Navajos VH-EYF and VH-BRL
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 01:33
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Yes, it is the same family.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 01:40
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I really have to laugh at how off the mark some of you blokes are, especially olí mate LKinnon.

Insight into an operation is a beautiful thing. Comments such as above is how general aviation operators can be destroyed off false facts in this amazingly regulated country weíre in.

For the record, Vortex Air aircraft have updated avionics. So both of you speaking have not had anything to do with the company for many years.

All their Chieftainís have either a G430, 530 or GTN650 TSO146 gps fitted. All have HSIís with dual instrumentation and others have Aspen PFDís or Sandel electronic AH/ASI/ALT.

I have no idea how any of that is related to falling asleep and fatigue. But maybe the increased maintenance they have was not a blessing. If the autopilot didnít work, heíd likely be more alert and potentially not fall asleep. I think itís the 16 hour TOD approval that needs to be reviewed. But hey, who am I to speculate?

Last edited by transition_alt; 27th Nov 2018 at 04:28.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 01:52
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Originally Posted by longlegs View Post
Same Tucker's as Promair formerly of Welshpool?


Promair PA31 Navajos VH-EYF and VH-BRL
Thanks for photo , brings back memories ( some very sleepy on those early morning cray runs after a couple night freight runs first ) . 6 years flying them , one missing RRM ! Good times !
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