CASA Avmed – In my opinion, a biased, intellectually dishonest regulator
squawk..aint only avmed that 'spin the "facts" Its a CAsA policy used to denigrate the victim. Any old BS will do.
The CAsA "corporate spokesperson" Mr Gobsome, is a master of the lie MO.
As for the difference between Cl1 and Cl 2...CAsA posits ...none. See their whacky excuses re CSF (gotta have a new acronym) volunteer pvt flights
'There will be more stress on the (cl2) PPL volunteer than Charter (cl1) CPL.' Really...?
Charter folk have stress of employment/boss pressure, passenger pressure, weather and time contraints.
The PPL volunteer has none of that except for the wx decisions
The CAsA "corporate spokesperson" Mr Gobsome, is a master of the lie MO.
As for the difference between Cl1 and Cl 2...CAsA posits ...none. See their whacky excuses re CSF (gotta have a new acronym) volunteer pvt flights
'There will be more stress on the (cl2) PPL volunteer than Charter (cl1) CPL.' Really...?
Charter folk have stress of employment/boss pressure, passenger pressure, weather and time contraints.
The PPL volunteer has none of that except for the wx decisions
Thread Starter
Update
My lawyer sent the Uber-specialist’s report (quoted above at #116) to Avmed a couple of weeks ago. My lawyer then sent me an email that said he’d sent the report to Avmed. His email also said:
I interpret my lawyer as suggesting that Avmed will delay consideration of the report because they are - to use the Australian vernacular - arseholes.
If Avmed in fact does delay just because they can, I will add unethical and unprofessional to my view of Avmed’s behaviour, on top of biased, intellectually dishonest and unlawful.
I bet they [Avmed] sit on it [the report] until the conference [in April] – why? Because they can!
If Avmed in fact does delay just because they can, I will add unethical and unprofessional to my view of Avmed’s behaviour, on top of biased, intellectually dishonest and unlawful.
All that and more LB !!
Currently getting the run around for a simple PPL.
Could it be because you're NOT in MHR they want all this extra. Have to hunt up 2 years of doctoring ( 2 x DL medicals , eyes done/re cataracts 3 yrs ago) And a stress test which has never applied to a PPL in my past
And a MoCA test !! WTF is that.? Nobody locally knows but Dr Google tells all. Its an assessment to see if you're losing yr marbles.
(Montreal Cognitive Assessment)
So someone has just decided , in spite of having Drivers Licence tests ...which allow me to fly , not the VH one the same, but only the numbered one...They posit I'm going senile. Nor do they say the why, or give any reason...its just an edict.
I take that as an insult at my current state of robust good health.!!
Or perhaps this extra/ delay is because AvMed recently had to remove (not delete from their records, I bet) an old ASIC ID photo.
Revenge theatre comes easy to CAsA. Because they can.
Currently getting the run around for a simple PPL.
Could it be because you're NOT in MHR they want all this extra. Have to hunt up 2 years of doctoring ( 2 x DL medicals , eyes done/re cataracts 3 yrs ago) And a stress test which has never applied to a PPL in my past
And a MoCA test !! WTF is that.? Nobody locally knows but Dr Google tells all. Its an assessment to see if you're losing yr marbles.
(Montreal Cognitive Assessment)
So someone has just decided , in spite of having Drivers Licence tests ...which allow me to fly , not the VH one the same, but only the numbered one...They posit I'm going senile. Nor do they say the why, or give any reason...its just an edict.
I take that as an insult at my current state of robust good health.!!
Or perhaps this extra/ delay is because AvMed recently had to remove (not delete from their records, I bet) an old ASIC ID photo.
Revenge theatre comes easy to CAsA. Because they can.
And a MoCA test !! WTF is that.? Nobody locally knows but Dr Google tells all. Its an assessment to see if you're losing yr marbles.
(Montreal Cognitive Assessment)
So someone has just decided , in spite of having Drivers Licence tests ...which allow me to fly , not the VH one the same, but only the numbered one...They posit I'm going senile. Nor do they say the why, or give any reason...its just an edict.
.
(Montreal Cognitive Assessment)
So someone has just decided , in spite of having Drivers Licence tests ...which allow me to fly , not the VH one the same, but only the numbered one...They posit I'm going senile. Nor do they say the why, or give any reason...its just an edict.
.
Cast your mind back ---- some years ago, within CASA there was this wonderful theory that public criticism of CASA was proof of two disqualifying conditions:
(1) Mental instability/insufficiency/degradation, and
(2) Not having an adequate, acceptable and approved safety ethos.
If my memory serves me correctly, this was around the time you were on the AOPA Board, so not much has change (except for the worse) in almost 20 years.
Tootle pip!!
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Cleared of juvenile epilepsy 11 years seizure free, no medications
I want to join the NSW Police and get into polair, I have a legal medicine report from a Prof Roy Beran and John Maitland (Ray Mancini put me onto him) who says I should fight for a class 1 as I've had two medicals denied. Currently doing an avmed again through Dr Arnaudon in Camden. I have a HR licence..
Someone earlier mentioned that the cost of a cl 1 had become too onerous., go lower for Cl 2
Now for the private pilot its the same. Having a go at the Austroads COMMERCIAL D.L. was big WOFTAM. Made no trucking sense for flying.!
The current Cl 2 runaround and all the extras thrown in, have/ will cost a bundle..might as well chuck it and save the money for fuel and maintenance of the numbered one.
CAsA has made discrimatory regs re the Pvt Drivers Licence....RAAus numbered a/c only.. Pigeon-holing bs.
CAsA has made COMMERCIAL* regs forcing those with a numbered machine to throw money at the RAAus monopoly.
All that 'annual fees' for everything money could be better spent on fuel and maintenance... and being able to afford to fly and keep current
* 'CAsA is a Safety regulator NOT a commercial regulator'.... ceo McComic big verbal upchuck, Senate hearing 2011/ 13
See what I mean about 'any old BS will do'.?
Now for the private pilot its the same. Having a go at the Austroads COMMERCIAL D.L. was big WOFTAM. Made no trucking sense for flying.!
The current Cl 2 runaround and all the extras thrown in, have/ will cost a bundle..might as well chuck it and save the money for fuel and maintenance of the numbered one.
CAsA has made discrimatory regs re the Pvt Drivers Licence....RAAus numbered a/c only.. Pigeon-holing bs.
CAsA has made COMMERCIAL* regs forcing those with a numbered machine to throw money at the RAAus monopoly.
All that 'annual fees' for everything money could be better spent on fuel and maintenance... and being able to afford to fly and keep current
* 'CAsA is a Safety regulator NOT a commercial regulator'.... ceo McComic big verbal upchuck, Senate hearing 2011/ 13
See what I mean about 'any old BS will do'.?
Thread Starter
Update
I'm advised that the arrival of the Uber-specialist's report in AVMED did not result in involuntary squeezing of their eyes shut, hands slapped to cover their ears and ululation such that AVMED was physically incapable of reading the content. What's more, I'm advised that AVMED have read the content and assessed it against the pseudo-scientific percentage waffle they've confused the AAT into believing in a past matter.
Accordingly, AVMED must have been making it up when it said this in the letter suspending my medical certificate:
Surprising as it may seem to AVMED these days, even AVMED is subject to both the laws of physics and man-made laws. Not only could they, they were obliged to.
I'm advised that the only remaining issue in dispute is what kind of recurrent scanning should be done, and when. AVMED is pressing for the most dangerous form of scan - they demonstrated their ignorance of the various risks of the various kinds of scans during the stay hearing - and are pressing for it to be done, not on the anniversary of the most recent scan in November, but rather on the anniversary of the procedure in August. As is sadly usual these days, AVMED seems to me to choose the approach that will be most risky, expensive and inconvenient for the certificate holder. AVMED seems to me to be prepared to destroy the village to save the village - it's about 'safety' after all.
I've instructed my lawyer that I am completely uninterested in AVMED's views on these issues and will rely on the specialist's views on the most appropriate balance of risk and reward on follow-up scanning.
I will eventually post a 'lessons learned' out of all of this, but for those who have yet to take the hint: Be very, very careful about submitting to testing without knowing what it could coincidentally disclose. Some of you have what I had. And around 1 in 50 of you have a brain aneurysm. Now. Fortunately, the probabilities of that aneurysm rupturing are very low. As joseph w said earlier: "MRIs/CAT scans/Angiograms/whatever will show up all sorts of wonderous things that we more than likely would have been blissfully unaware of until we dropped dead at age 98 - from something completely unrelated...". I think we can confidently guess what AVMED will do if they find out that you have a "brain aneurysm". Imagine how much they could scare people with a term like "brain aneurysm" and selective quotes from the scariest 'studies' (just as they do with "vision deficiency" as in "colour vision deficiency").
Accordingly, AVMED must have been making it up when it said this in the letter suspending my medical certificate:
Please be advised, CASA is unable to make a risk assessment for your fitness to return to flying until 12 months has elapsed following your embolisation procedure.
I'm advised that the only remaining issue in dispute is what kind of recurrent scanning should be done, and when. AVMED is pressing for the most dangerous form of scan - they demonstrated their ignorance of the various risks of the various kinds of scans during the stay hearing - and are pressing for it to be done, not on the anniversary of the most recent scan in November, but rather on the anniversary of the procedure in August. As is sadly usual these days, AVMED seems to me to choose the approach that will be most risky, expensive and inconvenient for the certificate holder. AVMED seems to me to be prepared to destroy the village to save the village - it's about 'safety' after all.
I've instructed my lawyer that I am completely uninterested in AVMED's views on these issues and will rely on the specialist's views on the most appropriate balance of risk and reward on follow-up scanning.
I will eventually post a 'lessons learned' out of all of this, but for those who have yet to take the hint: Be very, very careful about submitting to testing without knowing what it could coincidentally disclose. Some of you have what I had. And around 1 in 50 of you have a brain aneurysm. Now. Fortunately, the probabilities of that aneurysm rupturing are very low. As joseph w said earlier: "MRIs/CAT scans/Angiograms/whatever will show up all sorts of wonderous things that we more than likely would have been blissfully unaware of until we dropped dead at age 98 - from something completely unrelated...". I think we can confidently guess what AVMED will do if they find out that you have a "brain aneurysm". Imagine how much they could scare people with a term like "brain aneurysm" and selective quotes from the scariest 'studies' (just as they do with "vision deficiency" as in "colour vision deficiency").
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Just recently filled in the CASA online application and what is disturbing is the
expectation that you have kept a record of every visit to a doctor in your life time.
Then there is the CASA Risk Factor Sheet, that shows a range of numbers and
provides no feedback on what affects those scores or what you can do to
change those scores.
Whats next, a DNA test to determine when your genetics will trigger the expiration of your
medical?
expectation that you have kept a record of every visit to a doctor in your life time.
Then there is the CASA Risk Factor Sheet, that shows a range of numbers and
provides no feedback on what affects those scores or what you can do to
change those scores.
Whats next, a DNA test to determine when your genetics will trigger the expiration of your
medical?
Thread Starter
The MRS is, in my view, a system designed to entrap you and justify AVMED's existence.
An interesting irony of AVMED overreaching itself is that medical professionals and specialists are now actively assisting pilots to avoid being trapped. Medical professionals and specialists do not like AVMED effectively dictating the clinical management of people who aren't AVMED's patients, AVMED having arrogated itself into areas of expertise it does not have.
I suggest you track down a real DAME - one that's been around for at least a couple of decades, despite AVMED's bull****, and who has been commended to you by someone you trust - and ask him/her to walk you through the implications of the answers and permutations of the MRS.
An interesting irony of AVMED overreaching itself is that medical professionals and specialists are now actively assisting pilots to avoid being trapped. Medical professionals and specialists do not like AVMED effectively dictating the clinical management of people who aren't AVMED's patients, AVMED having arrogated itself into areas of expertise it does not have.
I suggest you track down a real DAME - one that's been around for at least a couple of decades, despite AVMED's bull****, and who has been commended to you by someone you trust - and ask him/her to walk you through the implications of the answers and permutations of the MRS.
Just recently filled in the CASA online application and what is disturbing is the
expectation that you have kept a record of every visit to a doctor in your life time.
Then there is the CASA Risk Factor Sheet, that shows a range of numbers and
provides no feedback on what affects those scores or what you can do to
change those scores.
Whats next, a DNA test to determine when your genetics will trigger the expiration of your
medical?
expectation that you have kept a record of every visit to a doctor in your life time.
Then there is the CASA Risk Factor Sheet, that shows a range of numbers and
provides no feedback on what affects those scores or what you can do to
change those scores.
Whats next, a DNA test to determine when your genetics will trigger the expiration of your
medical?
Last edited by Cloudee; 17th Mar 2019 at 06:55.
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"a biased, intellectually dishonest regulator"
An excellent description of an out of control government
authority that abuses its absolute power.
Now to vent.
After being away from Australia for decades, I'm shocked at the universal hatred pilots have towards
CASA.
Its reflected in the number of senior pilots who cannot afford the financial or emotional stress of a complying with all the CASA requirements that often include requirements that are not required by other ICAO countries.
Its tragic that a government department has grown into a monster that is out of control and beyond pale.
Its' own rambling writing shows the "intellectual dishonesty".
I noted that LOSA used the enforcement word "audit" whereas the FAA use the word "assessment".
The FAA use of the word "assessment" implies a collaborative approach.
The medical questions differ from that of the New Zealand application that is more realistic , more practical and actually covers more without being "intellectually dishonest".
CASA's medical questions appear to be designed for "entrapment", to be able to find a literal fly spot one the wall in order to gain a conviction for a false statement.
I agree that the "closing" of the application after you submit it, is offensive.
It is easy to forget to include answers to questions that could involve trying to recall
a visit to a doctor decades earlier about a matter that was so trivial you don't even bother to note it.
CASA fail to qualify their questions. Its overboard, its a tragic pretense of safety when its more about ever escalating the bureaucracy and justifying the expenses that they force pilots to incur such as the fee for submitting a report.
To project this forward, as to where CASA may be going,
take a look at New Zealand's $120 charge for filing a medical or their ability to charge $284 an hour for doing work on a medical certificate.
Its effectively penalizing those who have additional health concerns
that need addressing.
Its a form of intimidation, a disincentive towards full disclosure and fails to honour
the principle that safety interests are best served with a collaborative approach.
The CASA approach is turning a medical from an opportunity to meet with a expert on aviation medicine to a meeting with a representative of the CASA gestapo.
What is really offensive is CASA's name, its that word "Safety" that
is a political statement, a delusional idea that they are entitled to do anything they like to increase their own bureaucracy in the name of "safety" that is often the complete opposite.
Every other country refers to themselves as an "Aviation authority" or Department of Transport"
which is what Australia used to call its aviation authority.
Every time I call CASA I want to puke. You are forced to endure their endless passive aggressive dictatorial announcements that contain a message of fear and intimidation.
Its that "tone of voice" that you sometimes hear when you are talking with one of their "officers".
Its that same tone of voice you get from those who are accustomed to abusing absolute power.
Take the way they tell you that "no one is available" when what is really happening is you are going to join the queue to speak to someone. Its designed to mislead a listener into giving up on their call, to get rid of callers. That is, they don't want you to call them. Its part of the sick nature of their corporate attitude that is systemic, habitual and unfortunately, multi-generational.
The arrogance is mind boggling. They threaten to terminate a call upon being asked
any simple question or infer on the phone that you are stupid for asking a question to which the answer is obvious to them.
These are not public servants, or "representatives" but "officers".
When did that change occur?
My view is that the entire legislation needs to be rewritten to something that is modeled on the simple language and easy to follow language with the universal terminology of the FAA.
Why is it that CASA sees a need to remove every noun, adjective and acronym used by the FAA and replace it with some devious figment of a CASA narcissist?
The CASA name is offensive.
Civil and Safety are two words that need to be removed.
An excellent description of an out of control government
authority that abuses its absolute power.
Now to vent.
After being away from Australia for decades, I'm shocked at the universal hatred pilots have towards
CASA.
Its reflected in the number of senior pilots who cannot afford the financial or emotional stress of a complying with all the CASA requirements that often include requirements that are not required by other ICAO countries.
Its tragic that a government department has grown into a monster that is out of control and beyond pale.
Its' own rambling writing shows the "intellectual dishonesty".
I noted that LOSA used the enforcement word "audit" whereas the FAA use the word "assessment".
The FAA use of the word "assessment" implies a collaborative approach.
The medical questions differ from that of the New Zealand application that is more realistic , more practical and actually covers more without being "intellectually dishonest".
CASA's medical questions appear to be designed for "entrapment", to be able to find a literal fly spot one the wall in order to gain a conviction for a false statement.
I agree that the "closing" of the application after you submit it, is offensive.
It is easy to forget to include answers to questions that could involve trying to recall
a visit to a doctor decades earlier about a matter that was so trivial you don't even bother to note it.
CASA fail to qualify their questions. Its overboard, its a tragic pretense of safety when its more about ever escalating the bureaucracy and justifying the expenses that they force pilots to incur such as the fee for submitting a report.
To project this forward, as to where CASA may be going,
take a look at New Zealand's $120 charge for filing a medical or their ability to charge $284 an hour for doing work on a medical certificate.
Its effectively penalizing those who have additional health concerns
that need addressing.
Its a form of intimidation, a disincentive towards full disclosure and fails to honour
the principle that safety interests are best served with a collaborative approach.
The CASA approach is turning a medical from an opportunity to meet with a expert on aviation medicine to a meeting with a representative of the CASA gestapo.
What is really offensive is CASA's name, its that word "Safety" that
is a political statement, a delusional idea that they are entitled to do anything they like to increase their own bureaucracy in the name of "safety" that is often the complete opposite.
Every other country refers to themselves as an "Aviation authority" or Department of Transport"
which is what Australia used to call its aviation authority.
Every time I call CASA I want to puke. You are forced to endure their endless passive aggressive dictatorial announcements that contain a message of fear and intimidation.
Its that "tone of voice" that you sometimes hear when you are talking with one of their "officers".
Its that same tone of voice you get from those who are accustomed to abusing absolute power.
Take the way they tell you that "no one is available" when what is really happening is you are going to join the queue to speak to someone. Its designed to mislead a listener into giving up on their call, to get rid of callers. That is, they don't want you to call them. Its part of the sick nature of their corporate attitude that is systemic, habitual and unfortunately, multi-generational.
The arrogance is mind boggling. They threaten to terminate a call upon being asked
any simple question or infer on the phone that you are stupid for asking a question to which the answer is obvious to them.
These are not public servants, or "representatives" but "officers".
When did that change occur?
My view is that the entire legislation needs to be rewritten to something that is modeled on the simple language and easy to follow language with the universal terminology of the FAA.
Why is it that CASA sees a need to remove every noun, adjective and acronym used by the FAA and replace it with some devious figment of a CASA narcissist?
The CASA name is offensive.
Civil and Safety are two words that need to be removed.
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"Basically they use sex,"
Bugger that Cloudee, I'm not going to have sex with them.
What next, a camera in your bedroom to record your sex life!!
Its bad enough that everyone in CAsA down to the tea lady can
access your medical file without some miscreant getting of on
me and domestic tyranny "at it".
Oh sorry sex as in gender yes err right.
I thought gender was optional these days
SCPL_1988..........Hear bloody Hear.
Bugger that Cloudee, I'm not going to have sex with them.
What next, a camera in your bedroom to record your sex life!!
Its bad enough that everyone in CAsA down to the tea lady can
access your medical file without some miscreant getting of on
me and domestic tyranny "at it".
Oh sorry sex as in gender yes err right.
I thought gender was optional these days
SCPL_1988..........Hear bloody Hear.
Last edited by thorn bird; 16th Mar 2019 at 22:04.
Thread Starter
Update
CASA has issued me a medical certificate.
As noted above, AVMED must have been making it up when it said:
As I also noted above, surprising as it may seem to AVMED these days, even AVMED is subject to both the laws of physics and man-made laws. Not only could they assess, they were obliged by law to assess.
AVMED seems to me to believe that they have to act lawfully only after someone insists they do. They only complied with the law in this case because I took them on. This is not the first occasion on which I have had to press AVMED to act lawfully.
An organisation that only acts lawfully when pressed to do so seems to me to be one with little-to-no corporate integrity. The tediously repetitive claims to be acting in the interests of the safety of air navigation is, in my view, merely a form of ‘noble cause corruption’. AVMED is, in my view, just a bunch of non-specialists who’ve been able to arrogate to themselves judgments they are not qualified to make, simply because they have the power of certification. And we have the Mafia-like threat implicitly made in an earlier post by nowluke: If you don’t comply with AVMED it could be bad for your health.
I repeat what the Uber-specialist said in his report, about AVMED’s judgments:
I despair at the fact that had this happened around the time I was working in CASA, the response of AVMED would have been: Well done in following up a potential medical issue ‘when in doubt’ and for getting the DAVF treated. Because your treating specialists say the procedure was a success, confirmed by subsequent scans, and because Australia’s foremost specialist in the area agrees, your medical certificate is no longer suspended. Go forth and fly safely. Because you’re obviously a responsible adult and you take these matters seriously, we know you’ll act on your specialists’ advice as to follow-up tests, if and as necessary.
CASA now wants the AAT proceedings to go away - move on everyone, nothing to see here. Not so fast, CASA... I reckon I’m owed a refund of the application fee to the AAT (as I got the last time I took CASA on by applying to the AAT) because the only reason you issued me with a medical certificate is that I took you on in the AAT. The application fee is not a small sum: $920. However, I could be wrong as there was a stay hearing. I’ll leave this issue to my lawyer.
I’ll get to a comprehensive post about lessons learned in a few weeks, but at this point I’ll note another one: We should all take them on every time they make a decision we don’t like.
All of us.
Every time.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and folks of other genders] to do nothing. Edmund Burke
As noted above, AVMED must have been making it up when it said:
Please be advised, CASA is unable to make a risk assessment for your fitness to return to flying until 12 months has elapsed following your embolisation procedure.
AVMED seems to me to believe that they have to act lawfully only after someone insists they do. They only complied with the law in this case because I took them on. This is not the first occasion on which I have had to press AVMED to act lawfully.
An organisation that only acts lawfully when pressed to do so seems to me to be one with little-to-no corporate integrity. The tediously repetitive claims to be acting in the interests of the safety of air navigation is, in my view, merely a form of ‘noble cause corruption’. AVMED is, in my view, just a bunch of non-specialists who’ve been able to arrogate to themselves judgments they are not qualified to make, simply because they have the power of certification. And we have the Mafia-like threat implicitly made in an earlier post by nowluke: If you don’t comply with AVMED it could be bad for your health.
I repeat what the Uber-specialist said in his report, about AVMED’s judgments:
“To impose arbitrary, essentially non-scientific qualifications on fitness to fly, appears contradictory to CASA’s commitment to impose rigorous scientific techniques to its assessment of pilots.”
“Arbitrary rules, based on pseudoscience from small case series”.
“Speculative risks based on poor quality data taken from small number surveys that have no relevance when applied to a single case.”
“Arbitrary rules, based on pseudoscience from small case series”.
“Speculative risks based on poor quality data taken from small number surveys that have no relevance when applied to a single case.”
CASA now wants the AAT proceedings to go away - move on everyone, nothing to see here. Not so fast, CASA... I reckon I’m owed a refund of the application fee to the AAT (as I got the last time I took CASA on by applying to the AAT) because the only reason you issued me with a medical certificate is that I took you on in the AAT. The application fee is not a small sum: $920. However, I could be wrong as there was a stay hearing. I’ll leave this issue to my lawyer.
I’ll get to a comprehensive post about lessons learned in a few weeks, but at this point I’ll note another one: We should all take them on every time they make a decision we don’t like.
All of us.
Every time.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and folks of other genders] to do nothing. Edmund Burke
From a public service perspective, Clinton, I believe you might be askew in your conclusion that you somehow “won”. I think the AVMED Doctors won. Remember Roosevelt’s famous instructions to his supporters asking him to do something he was already in favor off? “Make me”.
What you have done is given an AVMED Doctor an ironclad, gold plated piece of paper- an incontrovertible specialists report, that provides him absolute career protection to his act of giving you your certificate. It now doesn’t matter to HIM if you have an accident, he did everything in his power to deny you, but you finally trumped him.
This is not to criticize you; well done, but until we work out how to prevent AVMED operating in this arse covering mode all the time, the embuggerance will continue.
What you have done is given an AVMED Doctor an ironclad, gold plated piece of paper- an incontrovertible specialists report, that provides him absolute career protection to his act of giving you your certificate. It now doesn’t matter to HIM if you have an accident, he did everything in his power to deny you, but you finally trumped him.
This is not to criticize you; well done, but until we work out how to prevent AVMED operating in this arse covering mode all the time, the embuggerance will continue.