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Stawell crash

Old 5th Oct 2018, 03:29
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Stawell crash

The ABC is reporting a plane crash at Black range near Stawell.
No details yet.
​​​​​ABC NEWS
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 03:45
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Incident map shows it close to the Stawell airport.
ABC is reporting that 2 men have been taken to hospital. Hope they are ok

Incident Map
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 04:47
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Updated ABC
​​​​​​
According to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), the single-engine Bristell S-LSA plane was registered with Soar Aviation, a flight training school based in Moorabbin in Melbourne's south-east.
Unless I am mistaken, these are RAAus registered aircraft. Thought CASA and ATSB were not interested in RAAus.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 04:56
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Originally Posted by mullokintyre View Post
Updated ABC
​​​​​​

Unless I am mistaken, these are RAAus registered aircraft. Thought CASA and ATSB were not interested in RAAus.
Soar have both RAAus & VH registered Bristells.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 05:14
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i think the Bristell's at Soar are VH registered
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 06:07
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Already sounding eerily similar to the same aircraft type in August last year at Clyde, south east of Melbourne that caused serious injuries to the instructor and fatally injured the student.

http://www.google.com.au/amp/s/m.scm...-after%3famp=1
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 06:25
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Looks like probably a Bristell from Soar
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 06:39
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Originally Posted by mullokintyre View Post
Updated ABC
​​​​​​

Unless I am mistaken, these are RAAus registered aircraft. Thought CASA and ATSB were not interested in RAAus.
Soar has a combination of RAAus and VH registrations. Given the Bristells are the "complex" type Soar uses for CPL, I'd say it's VH registered.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 06:44
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Hope the pilots recover ok.
Looks like the Bristell is a problem child of an aircraft for flight training given two similar incidents in a year.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 07:09
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Originally Posted by zanthrus View Post
Hope the pilots recover ok.
Looks like the Bristell is a problem child of an aircraft for flight training given two similar incidents in a year.
It may also be that the aircraft are quite safe and the issue in each instance is more related to pilot skill levels.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 08:19
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There are a good number of crash reports for this aircraft type out there with similar circumstances, or so my research leads me to believe.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 08:38
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A lot of aircraft with a similar design (sport cruiser, Bristell etc) all suffer from rudder airflow shielding in a spin and wont come out according to overseas and local accident reports. The rudder is ineffective in any sort of spin that's anywhere near flat. I thought most of these had a ballistic parachute. I hope the guys recover quickly

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Old 5th Oct 2018, 08:42
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
There are a good number of crash reports for this aircraft type out there with similar circumstances, or so my research leads me to believe.
Let us all hope that the two drivers can shed some light as to why this happened so that those that follow them in this type of machine can learn something to perhaps prevent this from happening again. Gods speed to getting well quickly:-)
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 08:55
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Originally Posted by mcoates View Post
A lot of aircraft with a similar design (sport cruiser, Bristell etc) all suffer from rudder airflow shielding in a spin and wont come out according to overseas and local accident reports. The rudder is ineffective in any sort of spin that's anywhere near flat. I thought most of these had a ballistic parachute.
That ABC News report linked above quoted a witness saying he saw the aircraft in a flat spin.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 09:51
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
.... in this type of machine can learn something to perhaps prevent this from happening again.
I'm more interested in the independent spin trials conducted a little while ago ...
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 12:24
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Originally Posted by djpil View Post
I'm more interested in the independent spin trials conducted a little while ago ...
when you review the accident data there seem to be a very high percentage of them rely on the earth to stop the spin.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 12:45
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To my concern, even the Factory Pilot Notes have a dubious Spin Recovery checklist.

.

Unintentional spin recovery technique:

1. Throttle - idle

2. Lateral control - ailerons neutralized

3. Rudder pedals - full opposite rudder

4. Rudder pedals - neutralize rudder immediately when rotation stops

5. Longitudinal control - neutralize or push forward and recovery dive.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 14:56
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Yep Step 5 needs to be simultaneous with Step 1 and 3 to my thinking.
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 15:42
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That ABC News report linked above quoted a witness saying he saw the aircraft in a flat spin.
. Looks like similar circumstances (flat spin) to the Brumby LSA accident near Penfield, Vic a couple of years ago, killing the two pilots - one a highly experienced former airline pilot
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 20:18
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Originally Posted by zanthrus View Post
Yep Step 5 needs to be simultaneous with Step 1 and 3 to my thinking.
Youíve described a commonly taught, but very incorrect technique for most aircraft.
You must use the manufacturers technique - for an upright spin this generally this would be:
- close the throttle
- ailerons neutral
- maintain stick back (forward stick may blanket the rudder)
- identify the direction of rotation, then apply opposite rudder
- after ruder input, pause momentarily, then progressively ease the stick forward until rotation stops
- as soon as rotation stops, centre the rudder and recover from the dive.

I cannot stress highly enough that you must use the manufacturers technique as some differ from that Iíve described. Obviously the use of elevator is reversed in an inverted spin and the only reliable way to determine the direction of the spin is to sight down the nose and look for the yaw. Inverted, the roll and yaw are opposite as viewed by the pilot. ie - upright: spinning right, rolling right, inverted: spinning right, rolling left. Itís very disconcerting at first and itís easy to use the direction of roll to incorrectly identify the required rudder input.
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