The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Australian T-vasi

Old 1st Oct 2018, 22:22
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 1,264
Better still, never completely trust any type of VASIS at some of the more remote destinations since the maintenance could be non-existent and flight tests few and far between - if any at all
As far as I know, there is only a requirement for flight testing during the commissioning process.
I couldn't imagine an airport operator getting a new flight test done unless there had been some damage to one or more of the boxes or if they received complaints of suspect slope guidance. Again the later is usually rectified by proper basic maintenance.
YPJT is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2018, 00:00
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 2,143
T-VASIS (& AT-VASIS) are quite maintenance heavy, and it also needs to be done by techs who know what they are doing. This generally means ex Departmental guys, who are all retiring about now. The average country airport nowadays probably has to get the local sparky in, or relies on importing specialist expertise to do the job when it's required. AsA kept maintenance of all the navaids, but all aerodrome lighting was given back to the aerodromes, so rarely did they have the quite specialised knowledge to maintain airport lighting, especially precision lighting. PAPI is much cheaper to maintain. Basically once installed, the light units can be unmounted, and a replacement clipped into place without disturbing the alignment. Thus a stock of spare units, (which are all the same I think, just depends on the angle of mounting) may be kept, or the units can be sent away for maintenance, or even just repaired inside at the airport workshop. T-VASIS are very susceptible to ground movement, have to be worked on on-site (2 man job for most tasks), and have many different unit types, thus needing lots of different spares. The lamps are also very expensive (a 100W "Day" lamp was over $100 back in the nineties - there's 4 to each box, 160 in an installation if double end, double side, and for a while, almost unobtainable), short-lived, and require focusing each time one is replaced - EVERY lamp had a different beam characteristic!). They also require specialist tools (ie the long accurate level) which I imagine are getting harder to keep in service, and constant maintenance - spiders love to spin webs inside the dark boxes because lots of insects are attracted to the light - and the webs catch dust and debris which affect the light output. If the airport has a double ended, double sided VASIS system, that's 40 boxes of headaches vs 16 for the same system if PAPI. It's no wonder they are being replaced.
As per flight-testing, I think the Dept used to do annual or bi-annual flight tests of T-VASIS, which consisted of flying in a ground party with a tracking theodolite, and then monitoring the aircraft flight slope with that. Back in the day, I seem to recall that any more than half a turn needed on a levelling screw to bring it back level was required to be reported back up the chain, and would result in an adhoc flight test being scheduled, even if just an approach to check symmetry, which is something ground maintenance can not check. Nowadays they probably only do it randomly, or after a report that the system is out of alignment or needs to be checked after major repair. The airport probably gets charged for that too, which is another reason faults may go unreported.

Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 2nd Oct 2018 at 00:27.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2018, 15:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,871
or after a report that the system is out of alignment
From my days at the DCA Flying Unit my guess is you won't get too many written reports by pilots observing perceived PAPI light signal problems. Human nature being what it is, if they see what they think may be a problem with PAPI lights, most pilots will think "not my problem" and leave it to the next guy to report it. The process gets repeated and nothing happens.
Centaurus is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2018, 00:54
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 2,143
I was referring more to T-VASIS alignment/symmetry problems, rather than PAPI, but much of a muchness. Things get reported directly at TWR'd airports all the time. It's the unmanned ones that are the problem I guess. Faults are noticed on the approach when things are busy, put on the back burner for comment during the turn, then probably forgotten during the start and takeoff.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2018, 02:44
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YMML
Posts: 2,470
In this modern age of high intensity long lived LED. What would it take to make a solid state box as a single fit replacement? Given the choice...VASIS or PAPI?
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2018, 11:38
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 71
Posts: 1,610
Originally Posted by YPJT View Post
Kununurra, Leigh Creek, Alice Springs
YLEC has AT-VASI.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2018, 13:59
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 1,264
Sorry DF,
didnt occur that the initial question was being that specific. Rather just asking who has the older VASIS type slope guidance

In this modern age of high intensity long lived LED. What would it take to make a solid state box as a single fit replacement? Given the choice...VASIS or PAPI?
. I'm sure the likes of Safegate and ALS are working on it. I recall not too many years back one of the presenters from Thorn Lighting proclaimed they were still a long way off having LED rwy edge lights.
YPJT is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2018, 23:15
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 71
Posts: 1,610
Originally Posted by YPJT View Post
Sorry DF,
didnt occur that the initial question was being that specific. Rather just asking who has the older VASIS type slope guidance

. I'm sure the likes of Safegate and ALS are working on it. I recall not too many years back one of the presenters from Thorn Lighting proclaimed they were still a long way off having LED rwy edge lights.
Yeah ok fair enough.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.