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GA SUMMIT 2018 - RESOLUTIONS

Old 13th Jul 2018, 05:44
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Thank goodness that I worked out (many years ago) that my membership of AOPA was a total waste of money.
Gerry111 - Many years ago I agreed with you. It was the efforts of Ben Morgan to rattle the cage, and his effectiveness in doing so, that made me renew my membership 3 years ago and this year to join the board.
I would urge you to step back and take a dispassionate look at the effort expended and the results so far, and perhaps re-consider.

General Aviation needs to present a strong and united front ans as a CASA inspector said to me the other day... an object will remain in motion until it is deflected by an opposing force. GA does not have the mass of Government, but we might be able to achieve the acceleration with your support and that of others.

Cheers
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 08:19
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Well said HL, especially coming from someone who is at the GA frontline. AOPAs willingness to get out and do something should be supported by everyone across the Australian aviation spectrum.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 13:53
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I agree Horatio and apologise that my comments regarding AOPA are negative. But many years ago as a member, there was consensus that if anything was to be achieved politically, the membership fees would need to be massively increased. I was happy with that then, despite AOPA real estate assets in Canberra being squandered.

And then nothing was really achieved. The CASA Regulatory Reform process never took off. That's from about 20 years ago.

I do realise that Ben's efforts are admirable despite unsophisticated. And I have no doubt that nothing will be achieved from the Wagga talkfest.

Did CASA Chairman, Jeff Boyd attend? And were any undertakings by CASA promised?

(The reason that I rag Ben, is that his title as AOPA Executive Director is a bit pretentious to me.)
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 14:07
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Did CASA Chairman, Jeff Boyd attend?
Jeff Boyd is not CASA Chairman any longer.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 14:58
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Horatio Leafblower View Post
Jeff Boyd is not CASA Chairman any longer.
My oops!
So who is now and did that person attend?
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 16:47
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gerry111 View Post

(The reason that I rag Ben, is that his title as AOPA Executive Director is a bit pretentious to me.)
gerry 111,
Given that is his position, as described in corporate documentation, what would suit your particular view of life, "chief clerk"?? Head cook and bottle washer??
He is a member of the board, he is the Chief Executive.
As for all the achievements of AOPA efforts towards reform, particularly between 1996 and 2001, you just haven't been paying attention.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 14th Jul 2018, 09:51
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Gerry 111...if you think Morgans title is 'over the top' read a few of the "titles" some of the CAsA whackos have got. Ben doent even make the cut
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 07:19
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gerry111 View Post
I agree Horatio and apologise that my comments regarding AOPA are negative. But many years ago as a member, there was consensus that if anything was to be achieved politically, the membership fees would need to be massively increased. I was happy with that then, despite AOPA real estate assets in Canberra being squandered.

And then nothing was really achieved. The CASA Regulatory Reform process never took off. That's from about 20 years ago.
Gerry111,
Do you understand the ramifications of our CASR Parts 21- 35, and where that came from, do you think it just appeared out of the mist one morning over Canberra, or was crafted by the CASA "iron ring", out of the goodness of their wooden hearts.

Do you understand that Part 21 is the basis for the huge expansion of AUF/RAOz, Experimental Amateur Built and Limited Category (Warbirds) since 1998.

Do you understand what an advance the original PIFR represented?

All that, and more, ONLY happened because of AOPA effort, subsequent to the reforms to AOPA pushed through by Dick Smith and Boyd Munro in 1994/95.

I appreciate that many of you only feel "comfortable" with "kiss a---", rather than "kick a---", but the latter works, the former just leaves a bad taste.

Ben is doing what has to be done, if anything is to be achieved, given the Minister's most recent statements, he has not yet "got the message", there is a lot more to be done to "convince" the Minister it is in his personal and the Government's collective political interest to take action.

Tootle pip!!

PS: The airlines made major gains out of Parts 21-25 as well, not just the little end of town ---- the whole aviation sector will gain from US style regulation, just as NZ has done post their 1990's reforms, NZ reforms that have now been adopted around the Pacific and into parts of Asia.
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 08:26
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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In April 1997 The Minister and the Board adopted the new COOP/Classifications of Operations Policy
Not another something that came out the Canberra fog overnight either.... Government Policy FFS.!!!
What use the Bored not to see it through.
21 Years of lost opportunities since then for GA because the CAsA Controlling Soviet didnt want it...cant give the untrustworthy, unsafe aviation citizens more freedoms...bugger that.!
And they did.
And that's why we are where we are today...going political.
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 10:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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the Aviation Summit finds that elements of the current Civil Aviation Act are not fit for purpose.

Specifically, 9A, Performance of Functions, imposes upon CASA a limitation that impedes the development of performance-based regulation and the safety benefits that would otherwise be achieved. 9A (1) requires that, in exercising its powers and performing its functions, CASA must regard the safety of air navigation as the most important consideration and there is an urgent need to address this anomaly.
Sunfish, does this mean the summit is directly attacking that part by which the CASA rules all?
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 10:26
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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LeadSled said:

...the whole aviation sector will gain from US style regulation, just as NZ has done post their 1990's reforms, NZ reforms that have now been adopted around the Pacific and into parts of Asia.


Totally, Precisely, Absolutely, and without a doubt.

Beautifully put LeadSled.

What IS in doubt though is why the idiot Minister and his minders can't seem to grasp the logic, sense and simplicity of this, and instead believe that the complex mess imposed on Australian aviation by the lunatics at CASA is the right way to continue. The mind boggles
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 10:27
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It still staggers me that CASA are trying to implement the findings of the Seaview inquiry. That accident happened on 2nd October 1994 and the coroner's findings were released in about 1996. The morphing of Charter and RPT functions, maintenance and administration will result in a further significant decline in GA operations including small operators, small schools and GA small business.
I personally struggle to see a light at the end of the regulatory tunnel. Most days I am not even sure there IS a tunnel.
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 10:36
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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FAA Safety and efficiency
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 13:27
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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LeadSled, I agree that AOPA achieved a lot in the mid to late 1990's as your examples certainly prove. That's why I became a member, then.
My criticism is that during recent years, AOPA has achieved IMHO, SFA for their membership. (That's as far as the CASA regulatory reform process is involved.)
I remain unconvinced that Ben's Wagga talkfest will change that anytime soon.
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Old 15th Jul 2018, 14:40
  #35 (permalink)  
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What IS in doubt though is why the idiot Minister and his minders can't seem to grasp the logic, sense and simplicity of this, and instead believe that the complex mess imposed on Australian aviation by the lunatics at CASA is the right way to continue. The mind boggles
Quite possibly one of the following;

The Minister does not want to do so, or

The many highly {over} paid minders surrounding him { of whom few, if any, would have any knowledge about any type of Aviation} advise him that nothing needs to be done.

LeadSled; I'm with SUIYA, Well put! The fact that PNG replaced their previously Aussie based regulations with the NZ ones really says something as far as I'm concerned. In my time there at least, there were a few locals highly placed in Government circles who actually realised that the GA sector was absolutely essential to the remote parts of the Country. Some of them really did well out of that too!

Dunno about that now though.....

Last edited by Pinky the pilot; 18th Jul 2018 at 02:34. Reason: typo
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Old 16th Jul 2018, 05:10
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The Minister's Aviation advisor Steven Campbell is former CFI at Tyabb, ex Chief Pilot of Air Frontier, ex Air North, Ex Kendells, Ex Cathay 777 C&T.
Worryingly/tellingly he was manager of the Part 61/Part 141/Part 142 review team.

...so I am certain he will be telling the Genuine Minister she's all good mate.
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Old 16th Jul 2018, 08:25
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Horatio Leafblower View Post
It still staggers me that CASA are trying to implement the findings of the Seaview inquiry. That accident happened on 2nd October 1994 and the coroner's findings were released in about 1996. The morphing of Charter and RPT functions, maintenance and administration will result in a further significant decline in GA operations including small operators, small schools and GA small business.
I personally struggle to see a light at the end of the regulatory tunnel. Most days I am not even sure there IS a tunnel.
Horatio,
Actually, what CASA is doing IS NOT what Seaview recommended.

Seaview DID NOT recommend that charter and RPT should all be to the one standard.

Seaview did NOT require that ALL OPERATIONS be to the highest (most restrictive) possible "standard".

What Seaview DID recommend was, in simplified form: If two similar aircraft are sitting side side, about to conduct functionally identical operations, ie: published scheduled passenger transport operations to Lord Howe Island, they should be operated to the same standard, whatever that standard might be.


What CASA is doing is implementing its preferred creative (as in micro-management and control) interpretation, based on the reasonable assumption that most people, including politicians and aviation industry people will not even have read the actual findings, much less understood them.

Another great example of tell the lie often enough, and most people will believe it is the truth.

What you are seeing is the post Bruce Byron era "policy" results, implemented by a crew that took a "day zero" scorched earth approach to anything before Byron's departure date.

And my qualifications for my statement ---- in 1996, I was given a job to do by the then Minister, which was, in part, to implement the Seaview recommendation, so there is at least half a chance that I understand what the recommendations actually were.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 16th Jul 2018, 09:04
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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HL...

The Minister's Aviation advisor Steven Campbell is … Ex Cathay


Based on the track record of certain other people who were 'Ex Cathay' and who were also involved in decision-making at a regulatory level, I'm not really so sure that's an endorsement that we should really be impressed with.
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Old 16th Jul 2018, 23:55
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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all that has happened is that AOPA is now neutralized as a political threat at the next federal election. Ministerial objective achieved. The Department can now take its time crafting a response that will not have to be acted on because it will miss the pre election legislative timetable. Objective achieved. CASA can keep on keeping on with no change. Objective achieved.

AOPA has shot its wad and has nowhere to go. it can't now engage in political action. it is constrained to wait for a ministerial response. if that response doesn't suit it is constrained to negotiate from a position of weakness under threat of RAA taking a swathe of its membership. CASA need do absolutely nothing since the Act hasn't yet changed.

Hence my entreaties to first build a credible negative campaigning machine, then negotiate from a strong position of give us....or we campaign against your weakest seats. Preserve that machine and associated freedom of action at all costs.

You are now stuffed for this election cycle. come back in 4 years, by which time i probably won't be flying anyway, nor will many others if. the embuggerance continues.
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 15:13
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly, that's the truth Sunfish.
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