GENERAL AVIATION SUMMIT 2018 - 9th & 10th JULY 2018
This heated debate is necessary and we should be thankful that this open forum exists at all. If this Wagga event proves no more than another gab-fest, then the membership of the AOPA should say to the directors that what is expected now is the appointment of experienced lobbyists to get the message across at federal election time, and beyond. Every concerned member of the AOPA should volunteer on election day to man one of the thousands of polling booths across the nation, armed with how-to-vote leaflets.
If Fred Hoinviille was still around, he would write it in the sky. Think he might have been one of AOPA's founders, apart from being a brilliant sky-writer.
If Fred Hoinviille was still around, he would write it in the sky. Think he might have been one of AOPA's founders, apart from being a brilliant sky-writer.
Vag:
I see what you did there......
You make the unfounded assumption that my views of CASA are "bitter" and then insinuate that this is because of personal interaction with the same. The implication you are trying to hang on me and others, being, like Lookleft perhaps, that critics like me are merely a few sick individuals, with axes to grind, who can be safely ignored. The next implication following from that is that all critics are a bunch of crybabies who should man up and get on with business and leave CASA and The Aviation Act alone.
Well mate, when I see a rapist at work, I don't ignore it. There is ample written evidence, the latest being the Forsyth Review, that things aren't rosy in the garden and anyone, like me, would wish to see an expanding, thriving industry providing jobs, growth, sheer enjoyment and a robust contribution to the Australian economy. To put that in terms you might understand; what pisses me off is the sheer waste and lost opportunities under the dead hand that now administers what's left of aviation. Things could be so much better.
There is also a multitude of evidence available to anyone who has travelled overseas or can read a web page, that GA in other countries is thriving and in Australia it is not. Given that Australians are not flightless effing Emus then there must be some other reason GA in Australia is dying and the number one candidate is poor regulation. This can be changed if we keep our eye on the ball and refuse to be distracted.
Given your apparently bitter views of CASA, would you describe the personal contact that caused this?
You make the unfounded assumption that my views of CASA are "bitter" and then insinuate that this is because of personal interaction with the same. The implication you are trying to hang on me and others, being, like Lookleft perhaps, that critics like me are merely a few sick individuals, with axes to grind, who can be safely ignored. The next implication following from that is that all critics are a bunch of crybabies who should man up and get on with business and leave CASA and The Aviation Act alone.
Well mate, when I see a rapist at work, I don't ignore it. There is ample written evidence, the latest being the Forsyth Review, that things aren't rosy in the garden and anyone, like me, would wish to see an expanding, thriving industry providing jobs, growth, sheer enjoyment and a robust contribution to the Australian economy. To put that in terms you might understand; what pisses me off is the sheer waste and lost opportunities under the dead hand that now administers what's left of aviation. Things could be so much better.
There is also a multitude of evidence available to anyone who has travelled overseas or can read a web page, that GA in other countries is thriving and in Australia it is not. Given that Australians are not flightless effing Emus then there must be some other reason GA in Australia is dying and the number one candidate is poor regulation. This can be changed if we keep our eye on the ball and refuse to be distracted.
It is gratifying that Sunny has the drive, motivation, wit and eloquence to push these vital arguments to the fore. But these are just words, I'm afraid, of feeble support. Action is required, but, to say it yet again, there will be no effective action , let alone result, without a groundswell of support from sufficient numbers of those concerned; unafraid to stick their heads up.,
No Sunfish, you just have a very inflated view of how your past experience is relevant to your hobby of aviation.
No one is implying anything of the sort. What you don't seem to understand, and Fantome has summed it up nicely, is that you are big on the rhetoric but small on the action. Or to put that another way, you are a bag of wind who expects others to make the changes that you think are necessary.
I am not a member of AOPA as I am not a GA pilot but I do applaud their efforts to engage the various agencies and try to get the changes their constituency are demanding. All I have seen from the PAC is any number of reasons of why it is not going to work. Enjoy your holiday Sunfish, AOPA will just get on with the job.
critics like me are merely a few sick individuals, with axes to grind, who can be safely ignored. The next implication following from that is that all critics are a bunch of crybabies who should man up and get on with business and leave CASA and The Aviation Act alone.
I am not a member of AOPA as I am not a GA pilot but I do applaud their efforts to engage the various agencies and try to get the changes their constituency are demanding. All I have seen from the PAC is any number of reasons of why it is not going to work. Enjoy your holiday Sunfish, AOPA will just get on with the job.
Folks,
Dick Smith was on Jones and Co. tonight, let's hope he can keep Jones fired up, because A.Jones, Esq. has the useful ability to frighten politicians enough to actually force policy change.
Watch out for the video, hopefully it will be available real soon now.
Tootle pip!!
Dick Smith was on Jones and Co. tonight, let's hope he can keep Jones fired up, because A.Jones, Esq. has the useful ability to frighten politicians enough to actually force policy change.
Watch out for the video, hopefully it will be available real soon now.
Tootle pip!!
Sunfish, you need to actually read what people write before you get things wrong again. My criticism has been of those who rant on about how the system can be fixed and what others need to do yet they don't want their hands to get dirty in the process. You may notice that my post #94 didn't mention any names but you have recognised yourself anyway. The Carly Simon song comes to mind. I don't have any pretensions that I can make any changes to the system. My criticisms are of those who consider that their self-importance and experience of the "system" give them a greater right to be heard than other "lesser" mortals.
I have a relationship with truth, natural justice, equity and procedural fairness. That is all that is required if one can also read documents like the Forsyth Review. I am not Robinson Crusoe.
To put that another way, I don't have to have a "relationship" with an axe murderer to want to see them behind bars.
To put that another way, I don't have to have a "relationship" with an axe murderer to want to see them behind bars.
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I have a relationship with truth, natural justice, equity and procedural fairness. That is all that is required if one can also read documents like the Forsyth Review. I am not Robinson Crusoe.
To put that another way, I don't have to have a "relationship" with an axe murderer to want to see them behind bars.
To put that another way, I don't have to have a "relationship" with an axe murderer to want to see them behind bars.
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ED:
Totally wrong Edward.
I claim, like many others, to have a working knowledge of natural justice and procedural fairness. I also claim to have had the privilege of working in Government and industry which perhaps goes beyond the experience of some pilots and that I modestly hope might be useful to some.
But besides that, you don't need to have been attacked by an axe murderer to comment on what should happen to one. There is plenty of official, written evidence that CASA is dysfunctional and as a public institution we have a right, perhaps even a duty to try and improve that situation.
When you hear me telling someone how to fly a B777 you can criticize but for now shut up.
You have the least inter action with CASA of all those posting here, yet you claim to have the most insight into how to deal with that organisation. Fvcks me mate why you even bother posting.
I claim, like many others, to have a working knowledge of natural justice and procedural fairness. I also claim to have had the privilege of working in Government and industry which perhaps goes beyond the experience of some pilots and that I modestly hope might be useful to some.
But besides that, you don't need to have been attacked by an axe murderer to comment on what should happen to one. There is plenty of official, written evidence that CASA is dysfunctional and as a public institution we have a right, perhaps even a duty to try and improve that situation.
When you hear me telling someone how to fly a B777 you can criticize but for now shut up.
I can well understand the frustrations of Sunfish and other coming to the surface from time to time.
As for the apologists for CASA, they are in two broad categories, it seems to me.
The first are those who work for CASA, in one way or another, and secondly, those who have never had to deal with the real "CASA Rampant".
The record is very clear and beyond dispute, that, over the years, CASA and it's predecessors have been a major impediment to the Australian aviation sector, report after report of multiple Royal Commissions and other forms of inquiry, over many years, all have one thing in common, severe criticism of the CASA by whatever name at the time, always on multiple grounds.
Yet, such is the way Canberra works, and in this case, the ruthless exploitation of public fear and ignorance under the general heading of "air safety", and the gullibility of the "media", that only on few occasions has the power of the bureaucrats at the time been seriously dented, and always not for long, as Ministers come and go.
Only political power will overcome the situation, we have seen major shakeups in bureaucracy before, if any department becomes too much of an embarrassment to elected Government, politicians will move.
Will that ever happen in Aviation??
It seems unlikely, as the size of the aviation sector that is interested shrinks, the general public ( and quite a few in the aviation sector) believes CASA's self serving publicity, and the aviation bureaucracy continues to expand.
Tootle pip!!
duuuuuh
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YPJT,
I can well understand the frustrations of Sunfish and other coming to the surface from time to time.
As for the apologists for CASA, they are in two broad categories, it seems to me.
The first are those who work for CASA, in one way or another, and secondly, those who have never had to deal with the real "CASA Rampant".
The record is very clear and beyond dispute, that, over the years, CASA and it's predecessors have been a major impediment to the Australian aviation sector, report after report of multiple Royal Commissions and other forms of inquiry, over many years, all have one thing in common, severe criticism of the CASA by whatever name at the time, always on multiple grounds.
Yet, such is the way Canberra works, and in this case, the ruthless exploitation of public fear and ignorance under the general heading of "air safety", and the gullibility of the "media", that only on few occasions has the power of the bureaucrats at the time been seriously dented, and always not for long, as Ministers come and go.
Only political power will overcome the situation, we have seen major shakeups in bureaucracy before, if any department becomes too much of an embarrassment to elected Government, politicians will move.
Will that ever happen in Aviation??
It seems unlikely, as the size of the aviation sector that is interested shrinks, the general public ( and quite a few in the aviation sector) believes CASA's self serving publicity, and the aviation bureaucracy continues to expand.
Tootle pip!!
I can well understand the frustrations of Sunfish and other coming to the surface from time to time.
As for the apologists for CASA, they are in two broad categories, it seems to me.
The first are those who work for CASA, in one way or another, and secondly, those who have never had to deal with the real "CASA Rampant".
The record is very clear and beyond dispute, that, over the years, CASA and it's predecessors have been a major impediment to the Australian aviation sector, report after report of multiple Royal Commissions and other forms of inquiry, over many years, all have one thing in common, severe criticism of the CASA by whatever name at the time, always on multiple grounds.
Yet, such is the way Canberra works, and in this case, the ruthless exploitation of public fear and ignorance under the general heading of "air safety", and the gullibility of the "media", that only on few occasions has the power of the bureaucrats at the time been seriously dented, and always not for long, as Ministers come and go.
Only political power will overcome the situation, we have seen major shakeups in bureaucracy before, if any department becomes too much of an embarrassment to elected Government, politicians will move.
Will that ever happen in Aviation??
It seems unlikely, as the size of the aviation sector that is interested shrinks, the general public ( and quite a few in the aviation sector) believes CASA's self serving publicity, and the aviation bureaucracy continues to expand.
Tootle pip!!
Your statement about the types of people who wish to deal with CASA in a professional and civil manner exhibits a closed mindedness to the modern paradigm.
Most of the senate enquiries and such have only shown the ignorance of the senators to the reality of aviation, with maybe the exception of Dave Fawcett who I served with in the great green suck.
You will be well aware that the politicians and general public care not about those at the lower end of aviation, any complaints are like yelling into a 44 gallon drum.
Genersl aviation will keep on keeping on, even old mechanics like me can stay employed and earning.
I have a conference with CASA team in Brisbane in a couple of weeks, I'm sure I won't be using the Leadsled approved method of communication to settle our differences, over the safety issue that we have under review.
FWIW.