Fuel Notam
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So if the local taxi breaks down, or the terminal toilet is blocked, a NOTAM is issued? They are sometimes listed in ERSA too.
There has never or rarely before been NOTAMs about fuel availability. Why is the lack of same now the cause of the destruction of GA? Get a grip.
It would be helpful if that were published somewhere. A sign on the security gates maybe?
My colleagues and I have done lots of uncomfortable wandering around YPPF...
What a refreshing read. I'm so relieved to find our NOTAM system on this side if the ditch is so much more user friendly with the ability to provide useful information for pilots.
Notifying lack of fuel, who'd have thought it was such an issue to do such a simple thing. Other useful information like "haymaking in progress" gets disseminated as well.
Notifying lack of fuel, who'd have thought it was such an issue to do such a simple thing. Other useful information like "haymaking in progress" gets disseminated as well.
Many aerodromes that used to have fuel no longer do so. Many aerodromes that used to have human beings at the end of the phone to provide information about fuel availability no longer do so.
There are an increasing number of places at which you are going to be stranded if fuel is not available, but you cannot positively confirm availability before departure. I gave the example of YLEC. If you arrive there close to reserves and the bowser isn’t working, you’re stranded.
I realise that it would be a terrible burden for Airservices to publish a NOTAM about the non-availability of fuel at YLEC after being informed of that fact by the supplier or the PIC of an itinerant aircraft. I realise that Airservices doesn’t care about the potential inconvience and distress that could be avoided by publishing that NOTAM, because Airservices doesn’t need to care.
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Why is the lack of same now the cause of the destruction of GA? Get a grip.
The subject of fuel NOTAMs has been discussed @ RAPAC over the years. There have always been complaints about the number of NOTAMs overall. Include FIR NOTAM (as you normally should check), and you have many pages.
Many locations do not have a NOTAM service per CASR, so NOTAM can't be issued anyway. Only authorised persons can issue a NOTAM, and at country ADs that is usually only the AD OPR.
There was also feedback at one point that many refuelling agents did not want the responsibility of arranging, amending and cancelling NOTAMs, their feelings being that pilots should contact them to ascertain fuel and their availability, callout fee etc.
The regulator - CASA, not Airservices - position was that the introduction of issuing NOTAMs re fuel could lead to the interpretation of no NOTAM = fuel available, which may not be the case, and that instead NOTAMs should not normally be issued and the practice of pilots telephoning to ascertain fuel availability should continue.
If the policy has changed, the practice of arranging NOTAMs may not be widespread (and I'm not sure a requirement could be imposed on refuelling agents anyway), so common sense says never rely on whether or not someone has issued a NOTAM.
Many locations do not have a NOTAM service per CASR, so NOTAM can't be issued anyway. Only authorised persons can issue a NOTAM, and at country ADs that is usually only the AD OPR.
There was also feedback at one point that many refuelling agents did not want the responsibility of arranging, amending and cancelling NOTAMs, their feelings being that pilots should contact them to ascertain fuel and their availability, callout fee etc.
The regulator - CASA, not Airservices - position was that the introduction of issuing NOTAMs re fuel could lead to the interpretation of no NOTAM = fuel available, which may not be the case, and that instead NOTAMs should not normally be issued and the practice of pilots telephoning to ascertain fuel availability should continue.
If the policy has changed, the practice of arranging NOTAMs may not be widespread (and I'm not sure a requirement could be imposed on refuelling agents anyway), so common sense says never rely on whether or not someone has issued a NOTAM.
There’s always a perfectly bureaucratic reason to do nothing. Like the hospital without patients...
That would be solved if Airservices programmed NIS so that pilots could tick e.g. “Civilian” or “VFR” boxes so that all the irrelevant FLIP and IFR stuff was excluded. But I guess that would involve Airservices doing work to make life easier (and potentially safer) for nobodies - citizens who pay tax.
”Can’t” is not the correct word. It’s a man-made rule. A rule that can be changed.
Yes - I can see how a NOTAM initiated by a PIC stranded somewhere would cause a safety risk. I guess that if a PIC called Airservices to say a giant sink hole had opened up at place with no NOTAM service, Airservices would simply refuse to do publish a NOTAM about it - well done! That’s the kind of ‘service’ that contributes to ‘safety’.
Funny thing about the way Australia works - heaven forbid that a service would be proactively improved for the nobodies that pay for it. Hence the earlier point about these things contributing to the demise of GA.
Typical logic of a regulator with no corporate competence and no corporate integrity. The thought processes attributed to us stupid nobodies magically results in an outcome that’s comfy for the bureaucracy. I wonder how often folks in CASA have rung one of those numbers on a Sunday morning.
Good ‘ol “common sense”. The last refuge ...
One wonders, given all that you’ve said above, how it was possible for the unsafe anarchy quoted by outandabout at #5 to have been published.
There have always been complaints about the number of NOTAMs overall. Include FIR NOTAM (as you normally should check), and you have many pages.
Many locations do not have a NOTAM service per CASR, so NOTAM can't be issued anyway.
Only authorised persons can issue a NOTAM, and at country ADs that is usually only the AD OPR.
There was also feedback at one point that many refuelling agents did not want the responsibility of arranging, amending and cancelling NOTAMs, their feelings being that pilots should contact them to ascertain fuel and their availability, callout fee etc.
The regulator - CASA, not Airservices - position was that the introduction of issuing NOTAMs re fuel could lead to the interpretation of no NOTAM = fuel available, which may not be the case, and that instead NOTAMs should not normally be issued and the practice of pilots telephoning to ascertain fuel availability should continue.
If the policy has changed, the practice of arranging NOTAMs may not be widespread (and I'm not sure a requirement could be imposed on refuelling agents anyway), so common sense says never rely on whether or not someone has issued a NOTAM.
One wonders, given all that you’ve said above, how it was possible for the unsafe anarchy quoted by outandabout at #5 to have been published.
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There was also feedback at one point that many refuelling agents did not want the responsibility of arranging, amending and cancelling NOTAMs, their feelings being that pilots should contact them to ascertain fuel and their availability, callout fee etc.
thinning AVGAS infrastructure at unmanned ghost towns.
The regulator - CASA, not Airservices - position was that the introduction of issuing NOTAMs re fuel could lead to the interpretation of no NOTAM = fuel available, which may not be the case, and that instead NOTAMs should not normally be issued and the practice of pilots telephoning to ascertain fuel availability should continue.
For LB
PARAFIELD (YPPF)
WC AVBL
FROM 05 051312 TO PERM
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That will be Airservices position too.
It certainly is . They did something really useful. Ah well!! Back to reading about 200 foot obstructions miles from the airport.
The GLA NOTAM is an aberration.
The GLA NOTAM is an aberration.
Mustafagander: Call the number in ERSA for YLEC, now, and ask whether fuel is available, now.
Just to clarify ( as it's not clear from your post), that is just a NOTLB, not a NOTAM.
There's going to be a lot more fuel notams when Australia runs out of AvGas... we only have 19 days reserves!
Not a real NOTAM? Next thing you’ll be telling me that the Nigerian Prince who’s transferring money into my account isn’t real either.
2 pages of pontificating as to whether issuing a NOTAM advising the lack of acts is a good or a bd idea and (crucially) who is responsible and why they can’t be trusted.
Holy Snapping Duck Sh!t!!
Why can’t Australian pilots say - top stuff Airservices Australia, CASA, Gladstone Refueller, Or whoever. Excellent, thank you very much for this very helpful information, we would like more of the same please.
Refuelling stops are few and far between, and any information is greatly appreciated if something goes tits up.
We rely on NOTAMS to tell us if a runway is closed because some numpty has exceed his personal capabilities or if the runway is closed because the local mayor wants to see how fast his new car REALLY goes, and we rely on NOTAMS to tell us if there is WIP on a taxi way? Why is it so different to rely on NOTAMS to tell us that fuel is unavailable?
most airports that offer fuel also have an RPT service - part of having an RPT service is that runways must be checked once a day (usually by the same guy / gal who checks the quality of the fuel for sale). They are the ones who may or may not answer the phone when we ring asking bout fuel availability so why not make everyone’s life easier by issuing a NOTAM.
Places such as Leigh Creek that have a self serve swipe bowser may not be inspected on a daily basis (no RPT service, and at a self serve bowser the fuel quality only needs to be checked every 14 days). But in this day and age of mobile phones, anyone landing is usually straight on the phone to the number listed in ERSA, and the fuel operator can then issue a NOTAM and save further drama.
in other news for Croweaters, and those visiting the land of Crow, William Creek, Hawker and Kingscote are all rumoured to be getting self swerve swipe card bowsers. Fingers crossed.
Holy Snapping Duck Sh!t!!
Why can’t Australian pilots say - top stuff Airservices Australia, CASA, Gladstone Refueller, Or whoever. Excellent, thank you very much for this very helpful information, we would like more of the same please.
Refuelling stops are few and far between, and any information is greatly appreciated if something goes tits up.
We rely on NOTAMS to tell us if a runway is closed because some numpty has exceed his personal capabilities or if the runway is closed because the local mayor wants to see how fast his new car REALLY goes, and we rely on NOTAMS to tell us if there is WIP on a taxi way? Why is it so different to rely on NOTAMS to tell us that fuel is unavailable?
most airports that offer fuel also have an RPT service - part of having an RPT service is that runways must be checked once a day (usually by the same guy / gal who checks the quality of the fuel for sale). They are the ones who may or may not answer the phone when we ring asking bout fuel availability so why not make everyone’s life easier by issuing a NOTAM.
Places such as Leigh Creek that have a self serve swipe bowser may not be inspected on a daily basis (no RPT service, and at a self serve bowser the fuel quality only needs to be checked every 14 days). But in this day and age of mobile phones, anyone landing is usually straight on the phone to the number listed in ERSA, and the fuel operator can then issue a NOTAM and save further drama.
in other news for Croweaters, and those visiting the land of Crow, William Creek, Hawker and Kingscote are all rumoured to be getting self swerve swipe card bowsers. Fingers crossed.
Okey dokey
Top stuff Airservices Australia, CASA, Gladstone Refueller, Or whoever. Excellent, thank you very much for this very helpful information about AVGAS availability, we would like more of the same please.
(I think you’ll still find that the bureacracy will move to crush this ‘aberration’.)
Top stuff Airservices Australia, CASA, Gladstone Refueller, Or whoever. Excellent, thank you very much for this very helpful information about AVGAS availability, we would like more of the same please.
(I think you’ll still find that the bureacracy will move to crush this ‘aberration’.)
Thank you LB.
(I fear you may be right, but my youthful naivety says - what if it’s isnt an aberration? What if it really is the first tiniest sign that the tide is about to turn.)
(I fear you may be right, but my youthful naivety says - what if it’s isnt an aberration? What if it really is the first tiniest sign that the tide is about to turn.)