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AWB 85-023 Issue 2. CRACKED SPARK PLUG INSULATOR

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AWB 85-023 Issue 2. CRACKED SPARK PLUG INSULATOR

Old 3rd May 2018, 03:43
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AWB 85-023 Issue 2. CRACKED SPARK PLUG INSULATOR

AWB 85-023 Issue 2. Spark plugs insulator cracking/damage.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 13:19
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WTF is this even an issue in 2018???????
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Old 4th May 2018, 08:06
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Well done Jabba!

It’s good to see at least one person in CASA was prepared to believe facts and data. I do hope s/he is not tarred and feathered.
Operation with mixtures on the lean side of peak EGT cannot support detonation.
If I may mix my metaphors: That’ll put the cats amongst the village idiots.
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Old 4th May 2018, 09:49
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
That’ll put the cats amongst the village idiots.
I just love it!!!
Tootle pip!!
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Old 4th May 2018, 23:56
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In around 30 years of aircraft maintenance (mostly piston aircraft) I have or have seen less than 10 spark plugs dropped.

Never ever has this (at the time) produced a crack at the electrode end, but on a number of times it has had the complete ceramic HT lead end separate from the rest of the spark plug.

I hope you all check your invoice/s for the cost of the new washer/s. I have only ever seen one place that has had them, most places anneal the old ones (not sure what the manufactures or AMM call for).

Don't think I ever said "Operation with mixtures on the lean side of peak EGT cannot support detonation" but most certainly the detonation phase will be passed through to obtain the lean of peak area that wont support detonation.
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Old 5th May 2018, 00:03
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Another interesting observation is that I have rarely seen cracking of the ceramic at the electrode end of platinum (fine wire) spark plugs. In fact I am tempted to say never but there may have been one or two compared to hundreds in massive electrodes.

Anyone else noticed this?
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Old 5th May 2018, 00:53
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[B]ut most certainly the detonation phase will be passed through to obtain the lean of peak area that wont support detonation.
Correct.

And most certainly the detonation phase will be passed through to obtain any rich of peak area in accordance with a POH or manufacturer’s recommendations. You’re referencing the setting to peak EGT, remember? (That is a rhetorical question.)
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Old 5th May 2018, 01:08
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
...I hope you all check your invoice/s for the cost of the new washer/s. I have only ever seen one place that has had them, most places anneal the old ones (not sure what the manufactures or AMM call for). ...
I replace the washers every time. At around 50 cents each, I don’t see the point of reusing.

Annealing is, at least according to this manufacturer, a ‘no no’: http://www.championaerospace.com/ass...ical/95-11.pdf

Tempest says use new every time: https://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog...tplugmaint.pdf

This is an interesting tit bit (with my bolding) from mechanic support dot com:
A spark plug gasket is a good example of using the joint material properties to advantage. Spark plug gasket forms an air-tight seal by using the work hardening properties of copper. A new gasket is soft and as the plug is tightened, the copper yields and flows into small gaps creating an airtight seal. As the copper deforms it gets stronger by a process called 'work hardening". Hardening prevents further yielding and this prevents the spark plug from loosening in service.

One reason to always replace copper gaskets is that once deformed and work hardened, it must be returned to the soft (annealed) state before it can again flow into the small gaps. Annealing will soften the copper but it won't restore its original shape.
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Old 5th May 2018, 01:11
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Another interesting observation is that I have rarely seen cracking of the ceramic at the electrode end of platinum (fine wire) spark plugs. In fact I am tempted to say never but there may have been one or two compared to hundreds in massive electrodes.

Anyone else noticed this?
The same as you, not seen many damaged, even after a detonation event. Have seen fine wire with just one wire on several occasions.

I think that the awb may be aimed at the younger members of our craft.
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Old 5th May 2018, 01:55
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Yes, a sample size of two is always going to be more valid than the millions of hours of piston engine maintenance data accrued in the USA.
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Old 5th May 2018, 02:01
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
Yes, a sample size of two is always going to be more valid than the millions of hours of piston engine maintenance data accrued in the USA.
I don't think that is so.
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Old 5th May 2018, 02:12
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Most of the fine wire I have come across start life with only one wire.

Never really gave much thought to the rare event of cracking in the fine wire plugs before, but during my appy time the entire large fleet of piston twins used fine wire and the plug washers were all annealed. So I am pretty sure that is not a reason.

I have always torqued spark plugs to the correct torque and they are mostly the champion breed.

Thinking about it more cracking on massive electrodes was not as common as it is now, I would guess it around 4 times more common now.

So I doubt old pilots have changed operation much if at all in many cases and the engines are the same. I still clean and test them the same.

I think the spark plug (material/process) itself maybe a large factor - I don't think it is the fuel as the green and blue from memory was no noticeable difference in cracks.
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Old 5th May 2018, 08:25
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Laugh omg clearly no one here has read what a plastic fantastic manufacture said about fine wire plugs in their aircraft also one which uses lean assist. Mmm me wonders why that is.
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Old 5th May 2018, 09:06
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Originally Posted by Connedrod View Post
Laugh omg clearly no one here has read what a plastic fantastic manufacture said about fine wire plugs in their aircraft also one which uses lean assist. Mmm me wonders why that is.
I am just stating what I have seen and observed and that seems fine wire don't suffer the same cracking as massive electrode plugs and agreed by one other poster.

You Connedrod have made some wild comment I have zero idea about - stop making vague comments and only comments that are easy to follow ( in relation to this post what the hell is the plastic manufacturer? I have no got dam idea on your comment nor I assume most people) or simply don't post.

I think all my posts here are clear and they are all based on observation over some years (that is also clear I think - if I need to spell that out, I give up).
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Old 5th May 2018, 10:12
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
I am just stating what I have seen and observed and that seems fine wire don't suffer the same cracking as massive electrode plugs and agreed by one other poster.

You Connedrod have made some wild comment I have zero idea about - stop making vague comments and only comments that are easy to follow ( in relation to this post what the hell is the plastic manufacturer? I have no got dam idea on your comment nor I assume most people) or simply don't post.

I think all my posts here are clear and they are all based on observation over some years (that is also clear I think - if I need to spell that out, I give up).
Plastic fantastic is a term, used by people not qualified to work on them, to describe composite aircraft. Cirrus is one such manufacturer. Cirrus use lean assist, so I assume he is talking about Cirrus aircraft. There is a Service letter advising Cirrus owners who have fitted an aftermarket Turbo to not use fine wire spark plugs. I don’t think Cirrus have said you shouldn’t use fine wire plugs on their standard aircraft.

CIRRUS
Number: SA 11-08
Issued: October 20, 2011
SR2X Service Advisory
SUBJECT: Release of Tornado Alley Turbo Service Bulletin SB11-05: Fine Wire Spark Plugs
The following reference material is being provided to inform Cirrus Design customers of recently released ven- dor service documents. Contact the following vendor for additional information on the referenced service docu- ments and for service center locations:
Tornado Alley Turbo, Inc.
Web: http://www.taturbo.com Phone: 877-359-8284
************************************************************ *******************************************
DOCUMENT
RELEASE DATE SUBJECT COMPLIANCE
EFFECTIVITY
APPROVAL PURPOSE
DESCRIPTION WARRANTY MANPOWER MATERIAL
ACCOMPLISHMENT
Tornado Alley Turbo Service Bulletin SB 11-05
http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05
09/23/2011
Cracked Core Nose Insulators on ChampionTM Fine Wire Spark Plugs
MANDATORY, Accomplish this Service Bulletin within ten days. Compliance time begins upon receipt of this Service Bulletin.
SR22 Serials 0002 & subs with Tornado Alley Turbonormalizing System Installed per STC SA10588SC and SE10589SC.
The engineering aspects of this service bulletin are FAA DER approved.
The purpose of this Service Bulletin is to instruct owners of Cirrus SR22 airplanes equipped with Tornado Alley Turbonormalizing System to have all ChampionTM RHB32S fine wire spark plugs replaced with preferred massive style spark plugs.
Inspect and if necessary replace spark plugs.
Part and labor cost for this Service Bulletin are at the owner’s expense.
Spark Plug Replacement: 1 to 1.5 manhours.
Spark Plugs: ChampionTM RHB29E (preferred), ChampionTM RHB32E (equivalent), Autolite URHB32E (equivalent), Tempest URHB32E (equivalent)
1. Inspect engine logbook. If logbook indicates ChampionTM RHB29E (or equiva- lent) spark plugs installed no further action required.
2. If the engine logbook does not specify type of spark plugs installed, or if Cham- pionTM RHB32S fine wire spark plugs installed, replace spark plugs with pre- ferred massive style ChampionTM RHB29E or equivalent.
3. Complete airplane records by noting compliance with Service Bulletin SB11-05 in Airplane Logbook
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Old 5th May 2018, 10:44
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post


Plastic fantastic is a term, used by people not qualified to work on them, to describe composite aircraft. Cirrus is one such manufacturer. Cirrus use lean assist, so I assume he is talking about Cirrus aircraft. There is a Service letter advising Cirrus owners who have fitted an aftermarket Turbo to not use fine wire spark plugs. I don’t think Cirrus have said you shouldn’t use fine wire plugs on their standard aircraft.

CIRRUS
Number: SA 11-08
Issued: October 20, 2011
SR2X Service Advisory
SUBJECT: Release of Tornado Alley Turbo Service Bulletin SB11-05: Fine Wire Spark Plugs
The following reference material is being provided to inform Cirrus Design customers of recently released ven- dor service documents. Contact the following vendor for additional information on the referenced service docu- ments and for service center locations:
Tornado Alley Turbo, Inc.
Web: http://www.taturbo.com Phone: 877-359-8284
************************************************************ *******************************************
DOCUMENT
RELEASE DATE SUBJECT COMPLIANCE
EFFECTIVITY
APPROVAL PURPOSE
DESCRIPTION WARRANTY MANPOWER MATERIAL
ACCOMPLISHMENT
Tornado Alley Turbo Service Bulletin SB 11-05
http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05
09/23/2011
Cracked Core Nose Insulators on ChampionTM Fine Wire Spark Plugs
MANDATORY, Accomplish this Service Bulletin within ten days. Compliance time begins upon receipt of this Service Bulletin.
SR22 Serials 0002 & subs with Tornado Alley Turbonormalizing System Installed per STC SA10588SC and SE10589SC.
The engineering aspects of this service bulletin are FAA DER approved.
The purpose of this Service Bulletin is to instruct owners of Cirrus SR22 airplanes equipped with Tornado Alley Turbonormalizing System to have all ChampionTM RHB32S fine wire spark plugs replaced with preferred massive style spark plugs.
Inspect and if necessary replace spark plugs.
Part and labor cost for this Service Bulletin are at the owner’s expense.
Spark Plug Replacement: 1 to 1.5 manhours.
Spark Plugs: ChampionTM RHB29E (preferred), ChampionTM RHB32E (equivalent), Autolite URHB32E (equivalent), Tempest URHB32E (equivalent)
1. Inspect engine logbook. If logbook indicates ChampionTM RHB29E (or equiva- lent) spark plugs installed no further action required.
2. If the engine logbook does not specify type of spark plugs installed, or if Cham- pionTM RHB32S fine wire spark plugs installed, replace spark plugs with pre- ferred massive style ChampionTM RHB29E or equivalent.
3. Complete airplane records by noting compliance with Service Bulletin SB11-05 in Airplane Logbook
Thanks,

I recommend fine wire, more so if engine is getting on a bit with higher oil consumption and lower compressions ( or at new if you want a plug to last engine life). Never worked on the plastic Cirrus, but saw one once.

Never want to work on one - know why now!

Another reason - Spark Plug Replacement: 1 to 1.5 manhours.
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Old 5th May 2018, 23:36
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Originally Posted by Cloudee View Post


Plastic fantastic is a term, used by people not qualified to work on them, to describe composite aircraft. Cirrus is one such manufacturer. Cirrus use lean assist, so I assume he is talking about Cirrus aircraft. There is a Service letter advising Cirrus owners who have fitted an aftermarket Turbo to not use fine wire spark plugs. I don’t think Cirrus have said you shouldn’t use fine wire plugs on their standard aircraft.

CIRRUS
Number: SA 11-08
Issued: October 20, 2011
SR2X Service Advisory
SUBJECT: Release of Tornado Alley Turbo Service Bulletin SB11-05: Fine Wire Spark Plugs
The following reference material is being provided to inform Cirrus Design customers of recently released ven- dor service documents. Contact the following vendor for additional information on the referenced service docu- ments and for service center locations:
Tornado Alley Turbo, Inc.
Web: http://www.taturbo.com Phone: 877-359-8284
************************************************************ *******************************************
DOCUMENT
RELEASE DATE SUBJECT COMPLIANCE
EFFECTIVITY
APPROVAL PURPOSE
DESCRIPTION WARRANTY MANPOWER MATERIAL
ACCOMPLISHMENT
Tornado Alley Turbo Service Bulletin SB 11-05
http://www.taturbo.com/TATSR22-SB11-05
09/23/2011
Cracked Core Nose Insulators on ChampionTM Fine Wire Spark Plugs
MANDATORY, Accomplish this Service Bulletin within ten days. Compliance time begins upon receipt of this Service Bulletin.
SR22 Serials 0002 & subs with Tornado Alley Turbonormalizing System Installed per STC SA10588SC and SE10589SC.
The engineering aspects of this service bulletin are FAA DER approved.
The purpose of this Service Bulletin is to instruct owners of Cirrus SR22 airplanes equipped with Tornado Alley Turbonormalizing System to have all ChampionTM RHB32S fine wire spark plugs replaced with preferred massive style spark plugs.
Inspect and if necessary replace spark plugs.
Part and labor cost for this Service Bulletin are at the owner’s expense.
Spark Plug Replacement: 1 to 1.5 manhours.
Spark Plugs: ChampionTM RHB29E (preferred), ChampionTM RHB32E (equivalent), Autolite URHB32E (equivalent), Tempest URHB32E (equivalent)
1. Inspect engine logbook. If logbook indicates ChampionTM RHB29E (or equiva- lent) spark plugs installed no further action required.
2. If the engine logbook does not specify type of spark plugs installed, or if Cham- pionTM RHB32S fine wire spark plugs installed, replace spark plugs with pre- ferred massive style ChampionTM RHB29E or equivalent.
3. Complete airplane records by noting compliance with Service Bulletin SB11-05 in Airplane Logbook

really i dont have an "E " on my licence

so there is a sb on fine wire plugs on this aircraft. Same type engine fitted to other aircraft without a lean assist a mfd dont have the same problems. Ill let you make ypur own conclusions on that as you seam to know far more than myself
tootie toot tootie
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Old 6th May 2018, 11:03
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really i dont have an "E " on my licence
I am an engineer myself. Just wondering what you mean by this Connerod?
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Old 6th May 2018, 11:19
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A wild guess he does not have a "S" or "W" on his licience.
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Old 8th May 2018, 12:37
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Omg what you never looked at your licence at all why does that not supprise me.

i also note that thete is zero comment from the lop community on the curris sb. It should be noted that this kit is and has been for some time an option on their aircraft from the manufacturer and not turbo alley.
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