Flawed advice from Transport Minister McCormack’s office regarding SBAS
Have to agree with the Leadsled, Sunfish. WAAS and ADS-B are not interrelated. The TSO C145 and on supply a Fault Detection and Exclusion facility, the basis of the Australian requirment.
Sunfish,
As I recall recently reading, the FAA have written some rules to allow non-TSO boxes to be used, but the GPS position must still be a C-145/146 source. ie; Differentiating between a TSO'd complete system, and TSO's components of the system. If I have got that interpretation wrong, I am certain somebody will clarify.
Tootle pip!!
As I recall recently reading, the FAA have written some rules to allow non-TSO boxes to be used, but the GPS position must still be a C-145/146 source. ie; Differentiating between a TSO'd complete system, and TSO's components of the system. If I have got that interpretation wrong, I am certain somebody will clarify.
Tootle pip!!
Sunfish,
To carry the matter a little further, unlike Australia (surprise, surprise) FAA does not require all the equipment required for IFR to be TSOd, for operation conducted under CFR Part 91, roughly what we call Private or Aerial Work operations, as long as they meet calibration requirements. However, some individual components may have to meet TSOs, mostly if they interact directly with ATC equipment.
Tootle pip!!
To carry the matter a little further, unlike Australia (surprise, surprise) FAA does not require all the equipment required for IFR to be TSOd, for operation conducted under CFR Part 91, roughly what we call Private or Aerial Work operations, as long as they meet calibration requirements. However, some individual components may have to meet TSOs, mostly if they interact directly with ATC equipment.
Tootle pip!!
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It looks like we're going to get SBAS anyway, and funded by the government:
In the budget paper Budget Strategy and Outlook Budget Paper No. 1 2018-19
And in the Minister for Resources and Northern Australia's media release Better GPS and satellite imagery to support a smarter economy
In the budget paper Budget Strategy and Outlook Budget Paper No. 1 2018-19
Better GPS and satellite technology access for Australians
In this Budget the Government will invest $224.9 million over four years to provide accurate satellite-based positional, navigation and timing (PNT) capability which will enhance GPS capability across Australia. This measure will deliver PNT data with an accuracy of three to five centimetres for regional and metropolitan areas with mobile phone coverage and up to 10 centimetres elsewhere.
In this Budget the Government will invest $224.9 million over four years to provide accurate satellite-based positional, navigation and timing (PNT) capability which will enhance GPS capability across Australia. This measure will deliver PNT data with an accuracy of three to five centimetres for regional and metropolitan areas with mobile phone coverage and up to 10 centimetres elsewhere.
8 May 2018
The Turnbull Government is investing in the global positioning system (GPS) technology that will create jobs and support Australian industry.
Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator the Hon Matt Canavan, said the Government is investing over $260 million to develop the satellite technology.
“We rely on satellite and GPS technology for just about every aspect of our lives - from Google Maps on our individual phones, through to air traffic control at the busiest airports,” Minister Canavan said.
“More precise technology will make Australian businesses more productive, safer and more efficient.
“More accurate GPS will improve productivity by allowing new technology to be created and used across the economy. Growing Australia’s digital economy will also benefit developed sectors such as mining, transport, construction, aviation and agriculture.
“This investment will improve competitiveness and secure jobs across the Australian economy.”
Under the package, $160.9 million will deliver a Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS) (the technology underpinning GPS) to improve the reliability and the accuracy of positioning data from five metres to 10 centimetres** across Australia and its maritime zone.
A $64 million investment in the National Positioning Infrastructure Capability (NPIC) will complement SBAS to improve GPS to an accuracy as precise as 3cm in areas of Australia with access to mobile coverage.
“Our investment in this world-standard technology will have direct benefits including virtual fencing for farms and better management of cattle and livestock over vast distances,” Minister Canavan said.
“It also has applications for regional aviation such as improved access to regional areas by enabling planes to land on smaller airstrips and navigate difficult terrain such as canyons.
“The increased reliability provided by better GPS will improve safety for aircraft flying into regional and remote aerodromes, such as the Royal Flying Doctor Service fleet. It will reduce the impact of weather on flight cancellations and diversions, and improve the safety of landings.
“The resource sector will also benefit through better control of mine infrastructure, safety and more precise data for environmental rehabilitation.
“This is a practical investment to improve the lives of Australians and make businesses more productive. This technology provides instant, reliable and accurate positioning information, anytime and anywhere around Australia.”
A further $36.9 million is for Digital Earth Australia, a world-class technology that will give Australian businesses greater access to reliable, standardised satellite data that identifies physical changes to the Australian environment.
“The practical benefits of this investment will extend across our economy. This data will help researchers, governments and business better understand environmental changes, such as coastal erosion, crop growth and water quality,” Minister Canavan said.
“For example, information drawn from satellites is vital to help graziers increase the capacity of paddocks and make their farms more viable and sustainable.
“Our investment in satellite imagery will ensure a range of Australian industries have access to data that can help them tailor their investments, create jobs in target regions and increase their competitiveness.”
Media contact: Minister Canavan’s office 02 6277 7180
The Turnbull Government is investing in the global positioning system (GPS) technology that will create jobs and support Australian industry.
Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator the Hon Matt Canavan, said the Government is investing over $260 million to develop the satellite technology.
“We rely on satellite and GPS technology for just about every aspect of our lives - from Google Maps on our individual phones, through to air traffic control at the busiest airports,” Minister Canavan said.
“More precise technology will make Australian businesses more productive, safer and more efficient.
“More accurate GPS will improve productivity by allowing new technology to be created and used across the economy. Growing Australia’s digital economy will also benefit developed sectors such as mining, transport, construction, aviation and agriculture.
“This investment will improve competitiveness and secure jobs across the Australian economy.”
Under the package, $160.9 million will deliver a Satellite-Based Augmentation System (SBAS) (the technology underpinning GPS) to improve the reliability and the accuracy of positioning data from five metres to 10 centimetres** across Australia and its maritime zone.
A $64 million investment in the National Positioning Infrastructure Capability (NPIC) will complement SBAS to improve GPS to an accuracy as precise as 3cm in areas of Australia with access to mobile coverage.
“Our investment in this world-standard technology will have direct benefits including virtual fencing for farms and better management of cattle and livestock over vast distances,” Minister Canavan said.
“It also has applications for regional aviation such as improved access to regional areas by enabling planes to land on smaller airstrips and navigate difficult terrain such as canyons.
“The increased reliability provided by better GPS will improve safety for aircraft flying into regional and remote aerodromes, such as the Royal Flying Doctor Service fleet. It will reduce the impact of weather on flight cancellations and diversions, and improve the safety of landings.
“The resource sector will also benefit through better control of mine infrastructure, safety and more precise data for environmental rehabilitation.
“This is a practical investment to improve the lives of Australians and make businesses more productive. This technology provides instant, reliable and accurate positioning information, anytime and anywhere around Australia.”
A further $36.9 million is for Digital Earth Australia, a world-class technology that will give Australian businesses greater access to reliable, standardised satellite data that identifies physical changes to the Australian environment.
“The practical benefits of this investment will extend across our economy. This data will help researchers, governments and business better understand environmental changes, such as coastal erosion, crop growth and water quality,” Minister Canavan said.
“For example, information drawn from satellites is vital to help graziers increase the capacity of paddocks and make their farms more viable and sustainable.
“Our investment in satellite imagery will ensure a range of Australian industries have access to data that can help them tailor their investments, create jobs in target regions and increase their competitiveness.”
Media contact: Minister Canavan’s office 02 6277 7180
Sunny,
A bit more about US pricing, make certain the units you are looking at are 1090ES ADS-B prices. Adverts. even from manufacturer's web sites, don't always make it clear.
Remember in US you have two choices, 1090ES ADS-B, a rewarmed version of fifty or so years old technology, (actually closer to 1938), the 4090 channel transponder, and the UAT system, a CDMA broadband current technology datalink that carries far more than just ADS-B.
It is the modern technology UAT system that is dirt cheap, compared to what we are stuck with.
Tootle pip!!
A bit more about US pricing, make certain the units you are looking at are 1090ES ADS-B prices. Adverts. even from manufacturer's web sites, don't always make it clear.
Remember in US you have two choices, 1090ES ADS-B, a rewarmed version of fifty or so years old technology, (actually closer to 1938), the 4090 channel transponder, and the UAT system, a CDMA broadband current technology datalink that carries far more than just ADS-B.
It is the modern technology UAT system that is dirt cheap, compared to what we are stuck with.
Tootle pip!!
Don't start this argument again, Leadsled. UAT , a MITRE invention, was a solution looking for a problem to cure. Bandwidth is the enemy. You need a hundred times more ground stations to supply that bandwidth. If you are out of range, you have no bandwidth and you will see nothing. 1090es talks to anything...even out of range of ground stations...Two 1090es equipped aircraft will still see each other 200nm west of Kickatinalong! If anyone wants actual wx in your cockpit in Oz...buy an app for your smartphone or tablet. Because the government..and the airlines...would NEVER allow that type of "investment" to give GA free bandwidth.
Don't start this argument again, Leadsled. UAT , a MITRE invention, was a solution looking for a problem to cure. Bandwidth is the enemy. You need a hundred times more ground stations to supply that bandwidth. If you are out of range, you have no bandwidth and you will see nothing. 1090es talks to anything...even out of range of ground stations...Two 1090es equipped aircraft will still see each other 200nm west of Kickatinalong! If anyone wants actual wx in your cockpit in Oz...buy an app for your smartphone or tablet. Because the government..and the airlines...would NEVER allow that type of "investment" to give GA free bandwidth.
Howe about you stick with the facts.
Folks,
The below in the interests of historical accuracy, no "false history" please. The adoption of 1090ES as the international standard for ADS-B/C was and remains one of the most technologically regressive and short sighted moves in aviation since WWII. It has cost airlines unnecessary billions of dollars.
Naturally, Australia played a quite prominent role in "looking backwards", something at which, sadly, by international acclaim,we excel. We are stuck with 1090ES ADS-B, high cost of acquisition, high cost of fitting, and very limited in data transmission capability due being ancient technology in the broadband era.
Fact (1) ICAO ran a technical competition for a broadband system for future applications, the main ones, but not the only ones, being what we now call ADS-B/C Out, the other to transfer most ATC routine comms. from voice to the data-link.
Fact (2) There were two major competitors in the "final", VDL-4 (TDMA -- Ericsson patents ) and UAT (CDMA -- Qualcomm patents). Unfortunately, trans-Atlantic politics played a part, a re-run of the VOR/DME versus Decca fight several decades before.
Fact (3) The original "winner" was VDL-4 ---- votes at the UN/ICAO.
Fact (4) The first certified "ADS-B" into service ran on the VDL-4 system in Scandinavia.
Fact (5) ARINC/SITA has adopted VDL-2 as the replacement for VHF ACARS ---- so the great majority of airlines have had to fit a broadband transceiver, anyway, which ICAO originally intended to carry the ADS traffic. One for the price of two, so to speak, instead of two for the price of one.
Fact (6) The ground stations used by Airservices are the same ones FAA uses, except that the card slot for UAT is empty, from the ground station to aircraft, the range is the same, with only a minor difference in the frequencies meaning there is no difference in range -- it is line of sight.
Fact (7) From the ground receiver to the ATC computers it is a common signal format, regardless of whether the "air" part of the signal is 1090ES or UAT. Whoever told you bandwidth was a problem has sold you a furphy, and by the way, I have a big bridge in Sydney I can sell you cheap.
Fact (8) An unholy alliance, at the "last minute", proposed 1090ES as a "quick and cheap" solution to cash strapped US and IATA airlines, in a period when just about all US but Southwest were in/about to be/just emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy. It proved to be neither quick nor cheap, ask the airlines. QantasLink -8 conversion costs were in the order of twenty (20) times the CASA Cost/Benefit "estimate".
Fact (9) The channel congestion problems forecast by Mitre Corp. for 1090ES is now clearly a problem in the US, but such was the political pressure that a system that had not even been part of the ICAO technical competition was forceably accepted as an ICAO standard,
Fact (8) US domestic political pressure, given the dominance of US airlines/IATA and avionics manufactures, resulted in 1090ES, the clearly antiquated narrow band system was forceably adopted as the "International" standard, despite the fact that several VDL-4 system were up and running in Europe, a number of major US airports had adopted VDL-4 for tracking aircraft on the ground, and the US military, particularly the Marines, adopted VDL-4 for tracking aircraft on exercise ranges.
Fact (8) As FAA/ Mitre Corp. had done all the initial development based on UAT (CDMA), they stuck with UAT, and there are more GA aircraft on the N- register with UAT than 1090ES, the major reason UAT ADS-B is cheap is because of the size of the market, per unit many times the size of the airline market, and for several other reasons, cheap to produce ---- because the core transceiver is fundamentally the same as current mobile phones. The international market for non-airline 1090ES is sod all, by comparison.
Fact (9) UAT was not "invented" by Mitre Corp., if it was "invented" it was by Qualcomm in US for phones, and has become the basis of current generation mobile phones ---- CDMA.
Fact (10) All the early aviation development, including the Alaska and Ohio Valley trials were using equipment from Apollo Corp., later bought out by UPS -- United Parcel Service., which has something in the order of 500-600 freight aircraft.
Fact (11) A range of services are provided via UAT in USA, that can only be provided over a broadband data-link, it is a complete nonsense to suggest that a mobile phone is a substitute.
Fact (12) It is true that the FAA requires the transponder mode C to remain on UAT equipped aircraft, for TCAS availability/visibility to aircraft that do not have UAT, ie most airline aircraft. TCAS DOES NOT require ADS-B/C in or out.
Fact (13) During the relevant period of time, for my sins, I held a number of technical appointments, and attended a number of conferences on the subject, supporting VDL-4, which I have long since realised was was an error, because many of us at the time did not understand the technical capabilities of CDMA versus TDMA , the history of mobile phones and the performance of FAA UAT data-links tell the story of why we were wrong, a case of 20/20 vision in hindsight.
And, folks, by the way, Mitre is not a commercial entity, it is a research and development organisation supported by FAA.
UAT is Universal Access Transceiver, which just about describes the intent of the original ICAO technical competition for a future (not the past) broadband service.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 13th May 2018 at 08:26. Reason: Minor correction to FACT 5, VDL-2 is VDL-4 minus ADS-B
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(Slightly off topic but could be the basis for ongoing on topic debate):
Can somebody tell me what the acceptable flight test error is, laterally and vertically, for VFR private,/commercial Pilot Licence and class 4 instrument rating?
Can somebody tell me what the acceptable flight test error is, laterally and vertically, for VFR private,/commercial Pilot Licence and class 4 instrument rating?
Jesus wept....the only reason this argument can rerun is the original is a dununda godzone thread. TCAS, mode S FRUIT and UAT, frequency congestion and DME....and now its all Australia's fault?
Plus or minus 10 centimetres apparently...
