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15th Apr 2018, 00:22
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#1 (permalink)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia the Awesome
Posts: 120
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7700 or mayday/pan
Looking for some input from some ATCO’s.
From another thread in Tech log, an ATCO has chimed in with this below.
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/6075...l-query-2.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian W
As someone who has been at the other end of such calls - after or during the normal aviate navigate ... select 7700 and that will get _everyone's_ attention ATC sectors will start making sure that their aircraft are not in your way and will also stop pestering the sector controlling you to lower workload. Then do not hesitate to make your emergency call as a MAYDAY - as people have said you can downgrade it later; do avoid the mealy mouthed "we are declaring an emergency" as that is effectively meaningless. 7700 and MAYDAY and you will get everyone's assistance. If the adrenaline level subsequently drops and things are controllable you can always downgrade. But there have been many occasions when relatively small things have escalated - so wake everyone up - no-one in ATC will complain.
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Any Aussie ATCO’s care to comment on the use of 7700 vs MAYDAY/PAN to get attention?
Cheers
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15th Apr 2018, 00:45
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#2 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Age: 52
Posts: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roj approved
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Either action will trigger an distressfa, one having the benefit of also alerting other aircraft that there is priority traffic on channel while 7700 results in extra support for ATCO. You cannot cancel a mayday or 7700 but you can cancel or downgrade the distressfa. Doing both removes any doubt.
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15th Apr 2018, 02:44
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#3 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 105
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The whole “declaring an emergency” seems to be one of those American things.
“Mayday Mayday Mayday.....(details)”
“Are you declaring an emergency?”
“Wilco (sic) we are, roll the trucks”
Company policy where I work is that the decision to use the P or the M word is at the discretion of the PIC. For example I have had to do a flap zero landing into a CTAF with a long runway and made neither call because LDR was much less than that available, and actually the aircraft can be operated with the flap system MEL as long as everywhere is long enough. Whereas a Flap Zero Landing into an airport where you had to defactor the landing distance in order to get in requires a call, as would a flap zero caused by a hydraulic failure.
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15th Apr 2018, 03:38
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#4 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 126
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Why not 7700 and mayday/pan? They are not mutually exclusive! Keep squawking 7700 until ATC tells you to to squawk something else.
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15th Apr 2018, 08:08
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#5 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 456
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Quote:
The whole “declaring an emergency” seems to be one of those American things.
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Very much so - try declaring a PAN there and you will likely get them scratching their heads!
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15th Apr 2018, 21:17
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#6 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 2,088
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Squawk 7700 AND Mayday on Area AND activate ELT/PLB.
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15th Apr 2018, 22:59
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#7 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 323
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Take it from someone (mwa) who has had to use 7600 before, that based on the response from ATC at the time, you will definitely get a LOT of attention by using 7700.
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15th Apr 2018, 23:38
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#8 (permalink)
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Eidolon
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 1,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Squawk 7700 AND Mayday on Area AND activate ELT/PLB.
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Activating an ELT/PLB in flight can result in no other aircraft being able to contact you as the ELT/PLB can drown out the aircraft radio.
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16th Apr 2018, 00:59
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#9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 2,088
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If you have a PLB/ELT that was designed and constructed in the 21st century, and you’re broadcasting your mayday on the Area frequency, activating the ELT/PLB will not “drown out” anything.
It’s “dumb” to risk it or you being disabled after e.g. a forced landing, such that your precise location is never sent to the satellites.
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16th Apr 2018, 01:38
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#10 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 66
Posts: 775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markis10
Either action will trigger an distressfa, one having the benefit of also alerting other aircraft that there is priority traffic on channel while 7700 results in extra support for ATCO. You cannot cancel a mayday or 7700 but you can cancel or downgrade the distressfa. Doing both removes any doubt.
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That’s a distress phase or codeword DETRESFA.
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16th Apr 2018, 02:57
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#11 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Age: 52
Posts: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujii
That’s a distress phase or codeword DETRESFA.
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Yep, spelled it wrong but know it well as a former SARMC rated ATC
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16th Apr 2018, 10:32
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#12 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,663
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Mayday is immediate threat to life. Pan = emergency is one step below that which can be upgraded or downgraded if necessary.
When I had smoke in the cockpit after take off, we declared an emergency. ATC told everyone to go around and we made a very neat, tight low level circuit and landed. Couldn't have been simpler thanks to ATC.
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16th Apr 2018, 10:38
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#13 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... Still!
Posts: 2,921
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Quote:
When I had smoke in the cockpit after take off, we declared an emergency
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And this is why it’s confusing for ATC. Did you transmit a Pan call, or a Mayday?
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16th Apr 2018, 10:53
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#14 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,663
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We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?
By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.
We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.
If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.
We were @#$%ing lucky.
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16th Apr 2018, 11:10
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#15 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 323
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Is that when you bent the firewall of the 172 Sunfish?
Because if so, that makes for a far better story than you simply screwed up your landing.
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16th Apr 2018, 11:27
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#16 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 66
Posts: 775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markis10
Yep, spelled it wrong but know it well as a former SARMC rated ATC
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I too after a life in ATC.
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16th Apr 2018, 12:25
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#17 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 54
Posts: 1,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?
By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.
We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.
If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.
We were @#$%ing lucky.
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So you called a Pan Pan then?
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16th Apr 2018, 13:45
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#18 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: down under
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?
By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.
We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.
If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.
We were @#$%ing lucky.
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Interesting. I had precisely the same thing happen in a jab. Doing about 60knots, maybe 1-2 seconds short of takeoff when there was a bang. Took me a coupla seconds to process that by which time we're in the air. At about 200ft there's a strong smell of smoke. No tower at this field. Made a call to all traffic that we had a problem, did a low level circuit, politely and firmly told the person on short final to bugger off, and landed. V relieved when the plane on short final cleared the way for us. Turned out the exhaust pipe had dropped off -that was the bang. There was no fire. Now I make a mental note before takeoff: anything untoward while rolling: abort takeoff.
Scary thing is how long it takes to process what's happening. maybe that's me: I'm a bit slow.
Other thing that was interesting was all the people who appeared from nowhere after we landed, inc lots on bicycles. Normally this field seems deserted, but obviously people in hangers are listening.
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17th Apr 2018, 00:26
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#20 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 105
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From Airservices themselves:
“These phrases alert ATC to the level of response required. If you just tell ATC that you are declaring an emergency, more information on the nature of emergency will be required to enable them to coordinate the appropriate response for you.”
Pretty clear.
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