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7700 or mayday/pan

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Old 15th Apr 2018, 00:22
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7700 or mayday/pan

Looking for some input from some ATCO’s.

From another thread in Tech log, an ATCO has chimed in with this below.
Mayday Call Query

Originally Posted by Ian W View Post
As someone who has been at the other end of such calls - after or during the normal aviate navigate ... select 7700 and that will get _everyone's_ attention ATC sectors will start making sure that their aircraft are not in your way and will also stop pestering the sector controlling you to lower workload. Then do not hesitate to make your emergency call as a MAYDAY - as people have said you can downgrade it later; do avoid the mealy mouthed "we are declaring an emergency" as that is effectively meaningless. 7700 and MAYDAY and you will get everyone's assistance. If the adrenaline level subsequently drops and things are controllable you can always downgrade. But there have been many occasions when relatively small things have escalated - so wake everyone up - no-one in ATC will complain.
Any Aussie ATCO’s care to comment on the use of 7700 vs MAYDAY/PAN to get attention?

Cheers
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 00:45
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Originally Posted by Roj approved View Post
Looking for some input from some ATCO’s.

From another thread in Tech log, an ATCO has chimed in with this below.
Mayday Call Query



Any Aussie ATCO’s care to comment on the use of 7700 vs MAYDAY/PAN to get attention?

Cheers
Either action will trigger an distressfa, one having the benefit of also alerting other aircraft that there is priority traffic on channel while 7700 results in extra support for ATCO. You cannot cancel a mayday or 7700 but you can cancel or downgrade the distressfa. Doing both removes any doubt.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 02:44
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The whole “declaring an emergency” seems to be one of those American things.

“Mayday Mayday Mayday.....(details)”
“Are you declaring an emergency?”
“Wilco (sic) we are, roll the trucks”

Company policy where I work is that the decision to use the P or the M word is at the discretion of the PIC. For example I have had to do a flap zero landing into a CTAF with a long runway and made neither call because LDR was much less than that available, and actually the aircraft can be operated with the flap system MEL as long as everywhere is long enough. Whereas a Flap Zero Landing into an airport where you had to defactor the landing distance in order to get in requires a call, as would a flap zero caused by a hydraulic failure.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 03:38
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7700 or mayday/pan
Why not 7700 and mayday/pan? They are not mutually exclusive! Keep squawking 7700 until ATC tells you to to squawk something else.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 08:08
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The whole “declaring an emergency” seems to be one of those American things.
Very much so - try declaring a PAN there and you will likely get them scratching their heads!
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 21:17
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Squawk 7700 AND Mayday on Area AND activate ELT/PLB.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 22:59
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Take it from someone (mwa) who has had to use 7600 before, that based on the response from ATC at the time, you will definitely get a LOT of attention by using 7700.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 23:38
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
Squawk 7700 AND Mayday on Area AND activate ELT/PLB.
Activating an ELT/PLB in flight can result in no other aircraft being able to contact you as the ELT/PLB can drown out the aircraft radio.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 00:59
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If you have a PLB/ELT that was designed and constructed in the 21st century, and you’re broadcasting your mayday on the Area frequency, activating the ELT/PLB will not “drown out” anything.

It’s “dumb” to risk it or you being disabled after e.g. a forced landing, such that your precise location is never sent to the satellites.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 01:38
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Originally Posted by markis10 View Post
Either action will trigger an distressfa, one having the benefit of also alerting other aircraft that there is priority traffic on channel while 7700 results in extra support for ATCO. You cannot cancel a mayday or 7700 but you can cancel or downgrade the distressfa. Doing both removes any doubt.
That’s a distress phase or codeword DETRESFA.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 02:57
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Originally Posted by fujii View Post
That’s a distress phase or codeword DETRESFA.
Yep, spelled it wrong but know it well as a former SARMC rated ATC
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:32
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Mayday is immediate threat to life. Pan = emergency is one step below that which can be upgraded or downgraded if necessary.

When I had smoke in the cockpit after take off, we declared an emergency. ATC told everyone to go around and we made a very neat, tight low level circuit and landed. Couldn't have been simpler thanks to ATC.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:38
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When I had smoke in the cockpit after take off, we declared an emergency
And this is why it’s confusing for ATC.
Did you transmit a Pan call, or a Mayday?
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:53
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We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?

By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.

We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.

If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.

We were @#$%ing lucky.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:10
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Is that when you bent the firewall of the 172 Sunfish?

Because if so, that makes for a far better story than you simply screwed up your landing.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:27
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Originally Posted by markis10 View Post
Yep, spelled it wrong but know it well as a former SARMC rated ATC
I too after a life in ATC.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 12:25
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?

By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.

We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.

If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.

We were @#$%ing lucky.
So you called a Pan Pan then?
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 13:45
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?

By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.

We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.

If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.

We were @#$%ing lucky.
Interesting. I had precisely the same thing happen in a jab. Doing about 60knots, maybe 1-2 seconds short of takeoff when there was a bang. Took me a coupla seconds to process that by which time we're in the air. At about 200ft there's a strong smell of smoke. No tower at this field. Made a call to all traffic that we had a problem, did a low level circuit, politely and firmly told the person on short final to bugger off, and landed. V relieved when the plane on short final cleared the way for us. Turned out the exhaust pipe had dropped off -that was the bang. There was no fire. Now I make a mental note before takeoff: anything untoward while rolling: abort takeoff.

Scary thing is how long it takes to process what's happening. maybe that's me: I'm a bit slow.

Other thing that was interesting was all the people who appeared from nowhere after we landed, inc lots on bicycles. Normally this field seems deserted, but obviously people in hangers are listening.
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Old 16th Apr 2018, 16:24
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Not general aviation but a real world example.

CX138 SYD-HKG, a B-777, diverted to Cairns a short time ago. They were squawking 7700 and added Mayday to their callsign when contacting approach.

They check in at 22:10 into this clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/yb...2018-1530Z.mp3

They diverted for a medical emergency:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...212Z/YSSY/YBCS
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 00:26
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From Airservices themselves:

“These phrases alert ATC to the level of response required. If you just tell ATC that you are declaring an emergency, more information on the nature of emergency will be required to enable them to coordinate the appropriate response for you.”

Pretty clear.
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