The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

7700 or mayday/pan

Old 15th Apr 2018, 00:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia the Awesome
Posts: 399
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
7700 or mayday/pan

Looking for some input from some ATCO’s.

From another thread in Tech log, an ATCO has chimed in with this below.
Mayday Call Query

Originally Posted by Ian W
As someone who has been at the other end of such calls - after or during the normal aviate navigate ... select 7700 and that will get _everyone's_ attention ATC sectors will start making sure that their aircraft are not in your way and will also stop pestering the sector controlling you to lower workload. Then do not hesitate to make your emergency call as a MAYDAY - as people have said you can downgrade it later; do avoid the mealy mouthed "we are declaring an emergency" as that is effectively meaningless. 7700 and MAYDAY and you will get everyone's assistance. If the adrenaline level subsequently drops and things are controllable you can always downgrade. But there have been many occasions when relatively small things have escalated - so wake everyone up - no-one in ATC will complain.
Any Aussie ATCO’s care to comment on the use of 7700 vs MAYDAY/PAN to get attention?

Cheers
Roj approved is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 00:45
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Age: 58
Posts: 261
Received 30 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Roj approved
Looking for some input from some ATCO’s.

From another thread in Tech log, an ATCO has chimed in with this below.
Mayday Call Query



Any Aussie ATCO’s care to comment on the use of 7700 vs MAYDAY/PAN to get attention?

Cheers
Either action will trigger an distressfa, one having the benefit of also alerting other aircraft that there is priority traffic on channel while 7700 results in extra support for ATCO. You cannot cancel a mayday or 7700 but you can cancel or downgrade the distressfa. Doing both removes any doubt.
markis10 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 02:44
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: AUS
Posts: 42
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
The whole “declaring an emergency” seems to be one of those American things.

“Mayday Mayday Mayday.....(details)”
“Are you declaring an emergency?”
“Wilco (sic) we are, roll the trucks”

Company policy where I work is that the decision to use the P or the M word is at the discretion of the PIC. For example I have had to do a flap zero landing into a CTAF with a long runway and made neither call because LDR was much less than that available, and actually the aircraft can be operated with the flap system MEL as long as everywhere is long enough. Whereas a Flap Zero Landing into an airport where you had to defactor the landing distance in order to get in requires a call, as would a flap zero caused by a hydraulic failure.
AmarokGTI is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 03:38
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Terra Firma
Posts: 224
Received 15 Likes on 5 Posts
7700 or mayday/pan
Why not 7700 and mayday/pan? They are not mutually exclusive! Keep squawking 7700 until ATC tells you to to squawk something else.
Bleve is online now  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 08:08
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The wrong time zone...
Posts: 839
Received 48 Likes on 21 Posts
The whole “declaring an emergency” seems to be one of those American things.
Very much so - try declaring a PAN there and you will likely get them scratching their heads!
josephfeatherweight is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 21:17
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,273
Received 410 Likes on 202 Posts
Squawk 7700 AND Mayday on Area AND activate ELT/PLB.
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 22:59
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Take it from someone (mwa) who has had to use 7600 before, that based on the response from ATC at the time, you will definitely get a LOT of attention by using 7700.
StickWithTheTruth is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2018, 23:38
  #8 (permalink)  
swh

Eidolon
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 2,171
Received 24 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Squawk 7700 AND Mayday on Area AND activate ELT/PLB.
Activating an ELT/PLB in flight can result in no other aircraft being able to contact you as the ELT/PLB can drown out the aircraft radio.
swh is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 00:59
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,273
Received 410 Likes on 202 Posts
If you have a PLB/ELT that was designed and constructed in the 21st century, and you’re broadcasting your mayday on the Area frequency, activating the ELT/PLB will not “drown out” anything.

It’s “dumb” to risk it or you being disabled after e.g. a forced landing, such that your precise location is never sent to the satellites.
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 01:38
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 72
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by markis10
Either action will trigger an distressfa, one having the benefit of also alerting other aircraft that there is priority traffic on channel while 7700 results in extra support for ATCO. You cannot cancel a mayday or 7700 but you can cancel or downgrade the distressfa. Doing both removes any doubt.
That’s a distress phase or codeword DETRESFA.
fujii is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 02:57
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Age: 58
Posts: 261
Received 30 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by fujii
That’s a distress phase or codeword DETRESFA.
Yep, spelled it wrong but know it well as a former SARMC rated ATC
markis10 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:32
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,564
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
Mayday is immediate threat to life. Pan = emergency is one step below that which can be upgraded or downgraded if necessary.

When I had smoke in the cockpit after take off, we declared an emergency. ATC told everyone to go around and we made a very neat, tight low level circuit and landed. Couldn't have been simpler thanks to ATC.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:38
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,282
Received 162 Likes on 83 Posts
When I had smoke in the cockpit after take off, we declared an emergency
And this is why it’s confusing for ATC.
Did you transmit a Pan call, or a Mayday?
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 10:53
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,564
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?

By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.

We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.

If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.

We were @#$%ing lucky.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:10
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is that when you bent the firewall of the 172 Sunfish?

Because if so, that makes for a far better story than you simply screwed up your landing.
StickWithTheTruth is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:27
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 72
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by markis10
Yep, spelled it wrong but know it well as a former SARMC rated ATC
I too after a life in ATC.
fujii is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 12:25
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 60
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sunfish
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?

By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.

We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.

If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.

We were @#$%ing lucky.
So you called a Pan Pan then?
Tankengine is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 13:45
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: down under
Posts: 462
Received 10 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Sunfish
We transmitted emergency because we started with a burning smell on the take off roll. Called emergency at about 300 ft. As the aircraft was just out of maintenance we were unsure whether this was a transitory phenomenon due to some form of burnoff of residue or what?

By 500 ft we were turning downwind to land ASAP. Calling mayday was superfluous as we were in the circuit and in constant contact with a most helpful and encouraging ATC/ tower who cleared the way for us.

We stopped on a taxiway and fuel off, master off, mags off and @@@@ off. The firies put it out. Damage about $12000.

If we had been out of the circuit and more than say, two minutes away when smoke started, it would have been a mayday call.

We were @#$%ing lucky.
Interesting. I had precisely the same thing happen in a jab. Doing about 60knots, maybe 1-2 seconds short of takeoff when there was a bang. Took me a coupla seconds to process that by which time we're in the air. At about 200ft there's a strong smell of smoke. No tower at this field. Made a call to all traffic that we had a problem, did a low level circuit, politely and firmly told the person on short final to bugger off, and landed. V relieved when the plane on short final cleared the way for us. Turned out the exhaust pipe had dropped off -that was the bang. There was no fire. Now I make a mental note before takeoff: anything untoward while rolling: abort takeoff.

Scary thing is how long it takes to process what's happening. maybe that's me: I'm a bit slow.

Other thing that was interesting was all the people who appeared from nowhere after we landed, inc lots on bicycles. Normally this field seems deserted, but obviously people in hangers are listening.
cooperplace is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 16:24
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Not general aviation but a real world example.

CX138 SYD-HKG, a B-777, diverted to Cairns a short time ago. They were squawking 7700 and added Mayday to their callsign when contacting approach.

They check in at 22:10 into this clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/yb...2018-1530Z.mp3

They diverted for a medical emergency:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...212Z/YSSY/YBCS
Airbubba is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2018, 00:26
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: AUS
Posts: 42
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
From Airservices themselves:

“These phrases alert ATC to the level of response required. If you just tell ATC that you are declaring an emergency, more information on the nature of emergency will be required to enable them to coordinate the appropriate response for you.”

Pretty clear.
AmarokGTI is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.