Air New Zealand Recruitment - Latest
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Daunted by sitting in a jet sim and not flown one before, and for many their first multi crew situation.
The only way to know what to do, as in telling the other pilot to desist, is to either know someone who has been through the process before (and knew what to do), or you have read it here.
So it would seem a preselection process is in place doesn't it...may as well go back to more blatant who you know and not what you know selection like they used to have...oh wait a minute...
The only way to know what to do, as in telling the other pilot to desist, is to either know someone who has been through the process before (and knew what to do), or you have read it here.
So it would seem a preselection process is in place doesn't it...may as well go back to more blatant who you know and not what you know selection like they used to have...oh wait a minute...
No one is getting an interview with Air NZ jet having never flown multi crew before!! (Other than he very rare military fast jet pilot who applies, and I don’t think a few questions are going to bother them!)
Daunted by sitting in a jet sim and not flown one before, and for many their first multi crew situation.
The only way to know what to do, as in telling the other pilot to desist, is to either know someone who has been through the process before (and knew what to do), or you have read it here.
So it would seem a preselection process is in place doesn't it...may as well go back to more blatant who you know and not what you know selection like they used to have...oh wait a minute...
The only way to know what to do, as in telling the other pilot to desist, is to either know someone who has been through the process before (and knew what to do), or you have read it here.
So it would seem a preselection process is in place doesn't it...may as well go back to more blatant who you know and not what you know selection like they used to have...oh wait a minute...
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Slezy9 I didn't say anything about interview for a jet position, its a interview with a jet sim as part of the process, so going for a turboprop role -still get a simride in a jet, or at least you used to.
AerocatS2A We're just discussing a thorn in the interview process. Or as the ANZ folk like to call it, a bit of fluff. (nothing like downplaying eh) Lets say you have been flying for, lets say, Sunair, Air Napier, GBA, Navjos, an old B200 etc, did your training in Tomahawks, Seneca etc, ever going to have seen EFIS before? Have you dealt with the jet cockpit presentation of the VOR, that kinds looks like an old ADF too? All the while dealing with all that jet thrust and inertia. Yeah sure, ho humm, low key.
AerocatS2A We're just discussing a thorn in the interview process. Or as the ANZ folk like to call it, a bit of fluff. (nothing like downplaying eh) Lets say you have been flying for, lets say, Sunair, Air Napier, GBA, Navjos, an old B200 etc, did your training in Tomahawks, Seneca etc, ever going to have seen EFIS before? Have you dealt with the jet cockpit presentation of the VOR, that kinds looks like an old ADF too? All the while dealing with all that jet thrust and inertia. Yeah sure, ho humm, low key.
Last edited by DeltaT; 15th Jul 2019 at 21:34. Reason: ADF not NDB
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AerocatS2A I haven't said anything about perfecting it. Trainable...we all got trained to get a CPL. Show improvement...well let the candidate get on with it then.
Regarding the Turboprop interview. I came off 2 years of being out of commercial aviation, but was in the process of doing an IR renewal. They put me in a 787 sim, gave me some thrust/pitch settings and off we went. The sim profile isn't exactly a secret. Personally, most of the guys and girls I know, all went down to "Fly-a-jet" or similar to get some familiarity with glass cockpits and jet handling prior to their interview. I had a lot of time in G1000's etc, so the glass cockpit thing wasn't really a concern for me... except the skypointer which always seemed to mess with my head 
... it was more the handling that I wanted to experience. Not exactly cheap, but I considered it part of the interview prep.
And yes, they asked questions... and yes, at one point I told them to standby as I was busy flying the aircraft onto a radial (and had already blown through an altitude and a heading earlier because I was busy trying to be clever and answering questions!
) and as ElZilcho mentioned previously, they immediately left me to fly the aircraft. Once the radial was intercepted and we were S+L, they started the questions again. Several questions later they asked "Were you asked any other questions that you haven't answered yet?"... so I answered the "standby" question.
Personally, the thing I found most annoying was when I asked the PM to time the 1 minute outbound in the hold for me... "forever" later I asked "how are we going on that 1 minute?"... "oh, yeah... 1min 10 secs"
Honestly, I thought my sim was a bit below par... and then the feedback I got was that overall my sim went really well... and I had "shown improvement"
... it was more the handling that I wanted to experience. Not exactly cheap, but I considered it part of the interview prep.And yes, they asked questions... and yes, at one point I told them to standby as I was busy flying the aircraft onto a radial (and had already blown through an altitude and a heading earlier because I was busy trying to be clever and answering questions!
) and as ElZilcho mentioned previously, they immediately left me to fly the aircraft. Once the radial was intercepted and we were S+L, they started the questions again. Several questions later they asked "Were you asked any other questions that you haven't answered yet?"... so I answered the "standby" question.Personally, the thing I found most annoying was when I asked the PM to time the 1 minute outbound in the hold for me... "forever" later I asked "how are we going on that 1 minute?"... "oh, yeah... 1min 10 secs"
Honestly, I thought my sim was a bit below par... and then the feedback I got was that overall my sim went really well... and I had "shown improvement"
AerocatS2A I haven't said anything about perfecting it. Trainable...we all got trained to get a CPL. Show improvement...well let the candidate get on with it then.
Anyway, what is your solution, how do you think it should be run?
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Unfortunately some people have a limit to what they can do (I have been in the sim with some truly atrocious pilots) and while they may be trainable to some degree there comes a point where they can't go any further without an unreasonable investment in time.
However it should be said its many a time the crap sim instructor which also influences the training time in airlines, and the student has to pick up the slack through no fault of their own, so you have to pick a candadite who is even better still. And then when on the line, the training captain can be someone who has done nothing more than 2 sims and 2 classroom sessions prior to checkout in the airline with no other instructing background whatsoever. So really the problem can be 2 sided.
As for letting the candidate "get on with it", if the candidate needs their full mental capacity just to fly a few turns then I don't think they belong in a flight deck. Flying a B777 or B787 may sound daunting, but it really isn't, not at 200 knots with partial flaps, the EFIS setup with a full compass rose, no flight directors etc.
Yeah sure its so easy flying a jet mate, she'll be right, no one really needs training flying one at all. I reckon I can stop a 737 max from nose diving after takeoff too cause I am that good.
Read my point again about EFIS.
The knowledge of how to deal with your distraction in the recruitment process is only known by having prior knowledge of the test. That makes the test biased. Hey thats what you want to do, way to go, I am simply pointing out a fact worthy of attention.
Certainly ANZ has a sterile cockpit policy but I would be disappointed if a pilot were not capable of chatting while flying, if it took all of their spare brain capacity to just physically fly the plane. I mean this is our job right? The physical flying is a fundamental skill that should sit bubbling away in the background. If you can't perform that fundamental skill and have some brain space left over then should you be there?
Flying a jet is, in many respects, easier than flying a turboprop or a piston twin. Managing a jet can be harder, but you're not managing it in the recruitment sim, you're just flying it around at 200 knots and yes that is easy enough.
Yeah sure its so easy flying a jet mate, she'll be right, no one really needs training flying one at all. I reckon I can stop a 737 max from nose diving after takeoff too cause I am that good.
....and yet somehow people still manage to pass the interview process and get hired.
All round the world, Airlines have their own takes on the recruitment process, some Pilots pass while others don’t. If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the past 2 decades, those who complain the loudest about XYZ Airlines hiring policy are either those who have failed or those who haven’t done it at all but “heard about it from a mate”.
It is what it is, either step up or.....
All round the world, Airlines have their own takes on the recruitment process, some Pilots pass while others don’t. If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the past 2 decades, those who complain the loudest about XYZ Airlines hiring policy are either those who have failed or those who haven’t done it at all but “heard about it from a mate”.
It is what it is, either step up or.....
Originally Posted by DeltaT
I am simply pointing out a fact...
As for the test being biased, sure every subjective test is biased by the culture and preconceptions of the tester, that is a fact, I don't see it as a fact worthy of attention though.
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biased by the culture and preconceptions of the tester
I don't see it as a fact worthy of attention though.
unfounded assumptions like flying a jet is hard and interpreting an EFIS is hard
Has the overall interview process pass rate improved from 50% from a few years ago?
I agree that any subjective assessment by anyone about anything will be inherently biased. I don't agree that the Air NZ sim ride is worthy of special mention because of that.
No, it is easy straight away. A jet is easy to pole around the sky, there is no mystery. Like I said before there are things about operating a jet that are challenging, but just flying it around a bit is not one of those things. I also don't see what is so challenging about being presented with a picture of an ADI instead of an actual ADI or having your speed represented on a tape. My first type that had a speed tape I didn't get to see it in a sim, it was straight up in the plane and it wasn't hard. Is that because I am amazing? No. It's because it just isn't all that hard. Most young pilots these days will have seen an EFIS on a PC flight sim anyway. I just don't see being put into a jet with an EFIS as a big challenge, especially when all the other candidates will be in a similar boat.
No idea. I have no knowledge of the Link recruitment sessions. My own recruitment was to the jet fleet and I think seven out of the eight got in.
Read what I said. I am well aware after plenty of practise and exposure it becomes easy.
Has the overall interview process pass rate improved from 50% from a few years ago?
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For some reason what I have said keeps being twisted into something else. I don't think english comprehension is part of the ANZ testing process.
You seem to think it is unfair to put a candidate into an unfamiliar environment while loading them up with superfluous chat. You also seem think that those with inside knowledge will be at an advantage because they will know to assert themselves and tell the recruiter to “stand by” if they need to.
I disagree with the first bit, I’ve said why, and there’s little point saying it again because I think we just disagree at how challenging the unfamiliar environment is.
The second bit is is essentially saying that candidates who research the interview process are at an advantage. I fully agree with that but fail to see how Air NZ is any different from any other company. Those who do some homework will be rewarded.
I disagree with the first bit, I’ve said why, and there’s little point saying it again because I think we just disagree at how challenging the unfamiliar environment is.
The second bit is is essentially saying that candidates who research the interview process are at an advantage. I fully agree with that but fail to see how Air NZ is any different from any other company. Those who do some homework will be rewarded.
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You two! I was enjoying this thread until your disagreement. Now the popcorn is stale and the salt has hardened my arteries. Are you sure you are not married?
For the record, I don’t work for/nor plan to work for AirNZ or affiliates. I have however previously worked with a number of people that have gone there. They are fine pilots and deserve the role. May I suggest it’s the employing companies train set? They set the sim/interview reqts to suit well umm what they want. Any experienced checker/tester/instructor can tell a persons abilities fairly quickly. It’s not just about how quickly you adapt and pole any aircraft, it’s about decisions also. The ability to detect when arriving at overload and shedding (think aviate, navigate, communicate - then expand on stuff like human factors) what is least important is an important ability for any pilot.
Whether you like it or not, this is their process. It seems reasonable. Maybe they want to see people answering ‘standby, in the middle of an intercept’. That would be what I want to hear. Commanders. What is read online is always an assistance, but a good aviator should naturally have this function built in. Those that don’t - well they are simply human and not as compatible for the role as others..
Cheers!��
For the record, I don’t work for/nor plan to work for AirNZ or affiliates. I have however previously worked with a number of people that have gone there. They are fine pilots and deserve the role. May I suggest it’s the employing companies train set? They set the sim/interview reqts to suit well umm what they want. Any experienced checker/tester/instructor can tell a persons abilities fairly quickly. It’s not just about how quickly you adapt and pole any aircraft, it’s about decisions also. The ability to detect when arriving at overload and shedding (think aviate, navigate, communicate - then expand on stuff like human factors) what is least important is an important ability for any pilot.
Whether you like it or not, this is their process. It seems reasonable. Maybe they want to see people answering ‘standby, in the middle of an intercept’. That would be what I want to hear. Commanders. What is read online is always an assistance, but a good aviator should naturally have this function built in. Those that don’t - well they are simply human and not as compatible for the role as others..
Cheers!��
Personally, the thing I found most annoying was when I asked the PM to time the 1 minute outbound in the hold for me... "forever" later I asked "how are we going on that 1 minute?"... "oh, yeah... 1min 10 secs"
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*sigh “airmanship”..that old chestnut..a nebulous and barely definable term that gets trotted out every time some pilot does something that some other pilot doesn’t agree with..