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IFR 2D & 3D Approach Question

Old 3rd Mar 2018, 21:57
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IFR 2D & 3D Approach Question

Been abroad for a decade, looking at a QF Link Ad, whats a 2D and a 3D ?

"Hold current endorsements for Instrument Approach 2D and 3D on a current Australian Instrument Rating "

Cheero Folks, Thanks.
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 22:21
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Hi Ejector,

Two-dimensional (2D) instrument approach operations, using lateral navigation guidance only, e.g. a VOR,NDB,RNAV approach or

Three-dimensional (3D) instrument approach operations, using both lateral and vertical navigation guidance, e.g. an ILS,GLS, Lnav/Vnav approach.


https://www.airservicesaustralia.com...up/a14-h26.pdf
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 01:59
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Has to be in the running for the most ridiculous nomenclature ever in aviation history.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 03:20
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I wonder how much a " committee " got paid to come up with that ?

Thanks folks for the quick replay and link.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 03:27
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It's perfectly clear Icarus - wrong side of bed this morning ?
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 03:56
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Maybe Icarus is still operating before 1966, and sees this as a "Twopence and threepence" approach?
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 03:58
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Well at least it's fixed up the recency nonsense where the easiest approach had a 35 day recency and the hardest approach had a 90 day one...
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 04:07
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The only country in the world to use such terminology-must be correct! Australian 'uniqueness' again!!!!
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 04:26
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https://www.casa.gov.au/file/131281/...token=v_a9F1PN
Originally Posted by Ejector View Post
Been abroad for a decade, looking at a QF Link Ad, whats a 2D and a 3D ?

"Hold current endorsements for Instrument Approach 2D and 3D on a current Australian Instrument Rating "

Cheero Folks, Thanks.
See page 4

https://www.casa.gov.au/file/131281/...token=v_a9F1PN
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 06:31
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Clear to land it's from EASA Land. Your lot use it to with EBT.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 06:55
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ctl
This is ICAO designation. NOT unique Australian.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 11:15
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It's perfectly clear Icarus - wrong side of bed this morning ?
So was precision and non precision. What improvement has this change added? Really.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 11:18
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Well at least it's fixed up the recency nonsense where the easiest approach had a 35 day recency and the hardest approach had a 90 day one
This cyclic and part 61 now shows that where we were once dangerous if we did an approach outside of 30/90 days and now we are not. Recency shmecency.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 14:01
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OK I will be more specific-no one else (that I am aware of) specifies it on an Instrument Rating using that terminology. The generic term Instrument Rating is what is commonly used.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 19:52
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This might help: https://www.icao.int/Meetings/PBN-Sy...sification.pdf
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 08:49
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Colleagues,
If performing VOR approach using LNAV/VNAV, whether it 2D or 3D approach?
So minima to be used DA or MDA?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 22:50
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VOR approach does not have an LNAV/VNAV minima. VOR approach has an MDA. If you want to fly a VOR approach as a 3D approach operation, then in order to treat the MDA as a DA, you must add an amount to ensure that you do not descend below the MDA during the transition to missed approach. Typically this amount is 50ft.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 02:37
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
...this as a "Twopence and threepence" approach?
Love it - I'm doing tup-pence and thrip-pence approaches from now - but only with old guys who know what a pence is.

For those seeing it for the first time - 2D equates precisely to non-precision approach; has only indirect vertical guidance (using time or distance), and has an MDA. 3D equates to a precision approach; vertical guidance (glideslope) shown on the instrument and has DA. If it doesn't have a DA or if you're not seeing a GS, then it's a 2D.

And as a postscript, L/VNAV with vertical guidance from your baro-aided GPS needs specific approval - you can't (legally) just do it because your fancy glass cockpit can do it; it's not included in the strange list of approaches you're deemed capable of by virtue of having a GPS. (You didn't think it would be that easy!)

Last edited by drpixie; 6th Aug 2021 at 02:38. Reason: typo
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 07:23
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Originally Posted by drpixie View Post
Love it - I'm doing tup-pence and thrip-pence approaches from now - but only with old guys who know what a pence is.

For those seeing it for the first time - 2D equates precisely to non-precision approach; has only indirect vertical guidance (using time or distance), and has an MDA. 3D equates to a precision approach; vertical guidance (glideslope) shown on the instrument and has DA. If it doesn't have a DA or if you're not seeing a GS, then it's a 2D.

And as a postscript, L/VNAV with vertical guidance from your baro-aided GPS needs specific approval - you can't (legally) just do it because your fancy glass cockpit can do it; it's not included in the strange list of approaches you're deemed capable of by virtue of having a GPS. (You didn't think it would be that easy!)
That is not the way the world works any more, with IAN (Boeing) and FLS (Airbus) approaches that are becoming the new standard of flying a CDFA NPA, the presentation to the pilot is essentially exactly the same flying a VOR, ILS, LOC, GLS. FLS for example makes flying technique for the VOR the same as the ILS (you can even fly glideslope from above procedure onto the F-G/S). The modes flying an ILS would be G/S LOC, flying a VOR F-G/S, F-LOC. Single diamonds on the ILS, double diamonds on the FLS.



Read more https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/safel...nt-approaches/ and https://airbus-win.com/guidance-modes/

While 2D/3D approaches are defined by ICAO, needing specific endorsements on your licence is something more unique to Australia. Outside Australia, if your type rated, you can fly whatever that type is limited to (limited by the operators approvals). Flying those approaches on the type is handled more at the aircraft rating level (as the manufacturers outlines how these are to be performed), than a licence level.
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Old 7th Aug 2021, 08:38
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We could all move to the Star wars approaches

the R2D2 approach relies on aural beeps and whistles to remain within tolerance.

The Darth Vader approach only used on the dark side, ie. at night.

The Skywalker approach where you must tune in to the force.

Finally the Yoda approach where centreline maintained must be within two parsecs.
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