Who really cares?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 72
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who really cares?
It goes like this. Dick starts a thread on a minor issue, people wade in with their polar opposite views with some being more strident than others. It goes for a few hundred posts then dies. Nothing is achieved and the cycle starts again.
I fly my private, single engine lighty and keep out of the way of others. I am happy with the current airways system and don’t see any need to change. I am flexible and not stuck in the 50s, 60s or any other decade Dick may choose nor am I obsessed or stuck in concrete but I just don’t see any need to change at this time for what I see as little gain.
Am I alone?
I fly my private, single engine lighty and keep out of the way of others. I am happy with the current airways system and don’t see any need to change. I am flexible and not stuck in the 50s, 60s or any other decade Dick may choose nor am I obsessed or stuck in concrete but I just don’t see any need to change at this time for what I see as little gain.
Am I alone?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing is achieved and the cycle starts again.
I'd have to disagree with you on it going nowhere though. Dick tends to use this forum as a sounding board to gather opinions from those private and in the industry and sometimes to seek clarification on rules, regulation and history that he can't find or interpret himself (can't blame him for that!) He then takes that and prepares a well planned and reasoned response and takes that to either CASA directly, the Australian newspaper or other outlets.
One that I can think of that panned out in this exact way was the relatively recent change that allowed us to join the circuit on base. Small steps yes, but positive ones in ensuring that CASA live up to their mandate of following worlds best in aviation practice. Thanks Dick, I now regularly do this!
It's not all for nothing I assure you Fujii!
PS: Airport weather cameras also come to mind although it should never have taken Dick to pay for it personally to come to fruition!
What was wrong with what he said Capn Bloggs?
So just because fujii is happy we should just lie down and be happy as well? because one guy with a vfr lighty is all happy chappy with it we should all be content as well?
As Stick pointed out, the one person you attacked here is one of the very few who actually tries to/does make changes based not only on what he thinks is right but based on the opinions he forms by discussing with others here and in other parts of his life.
Can you not see the irony in attacking one of the very few people who trying to make changes?!
So just because fujii is happy we should just lie down and be happy as well? because one guy with a vfr lighty is all happy chappy with it we should all be content as well?
As Stick pointed out, the one person you attacked here is one of the very few who actually tries to/does make changes based not only on what he thinks is right but based on the opinions he forms by discussing with others here and in other parts of his life.
Can you not see the irony in attacking one of the very few people who trying to make changes?!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 72
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been arracked by Dick on numerous occasions as have many others. I am only asking if others are happy and can’t see any need for change at present. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Well. Having moved to the USA recently, GA is so much better here. Service, ease of use and people smiling. There is a better way.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: BAO
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok.....
Fugii-"I have been 'arracked' by Dick on numerous"...............
How did that end for you...???? but, concur with your opinion on free-speech.
Once donated an Esky back at BDV, in a raffle for the RFDS- but, the next draw the 'said Esky' departed, with.................
Trust all ended well for you.
Rgds
S28- BE
Fugii-"I have been 'arracked' by Dick on numerous"...............
How did that end for you...???? but, concur with your opinion on free-speech.
Once donated an Esky back at BDV, in a raffle for the RFDS- but, the next draw the 'said Esky' departed, with.................
Trust all ended well for you.
Rgds
S28- BE
With respect, the trouble as I see it is that it's Dick's way or the highway - nothing has changed on that front in 20 years or so. His philosophy has been previously quoted as "crash through or crash" and ultimately it's usually been "crash".
Having said that, I want GA to be a thriving business activity here in Australia as much as everyone else does too.
Personally, I would like to see him use his significant promotional skills in other worthy causes (such as increasing cancer research funds for example) rather than in aviation.
But that's just me speaking...
Having said that, I want GA to be a thriving business activity here in Australia as much as everyone else does too.
Personally, I would like to see him use his significant promotional skills in other worthy causes (such as increasing cancer research funds for example) rather than in aviation.
But that's just me speaking...
So Fujii, you're telling me everyone is entitled to an opinion in a thread started by yourself in which you try to shut down Dick and his opinions?
Cause that's how it reads, like you're saying that his posts go no where and are pointless and that they should stop.
Cause that's how it reads, like you're saying that his posts go no where and are pointless and that they should stop.
Fujii, I care.
There have been very few people since Kingsford Smith who have done as much to raise GA in Oz as Dick has. And even Smithy didn't get himself put in CASA to try to fix that schemozzle. A huge pity that the CASA Jobsworths reversed his input after he left, to protect their empire.
Yes, he is outspoken, but to make any point in this environment, you have to be. Squeaky wheel, meet oil.
Yes, he can be very focused, to the exclusion of some other people's opinions, but show me a politician who won't talk over anybody who opens his mouth.
I have huge respect for Dick, and any chopper driver who operates near Sydney should also be grateful for his input, otherwise you would not have any chopper routes, or Victor 1 or any of the easier ways to move around the Sydney-centric airspace.
There have been very few people since Kingsford Smith who have done as much to raise GA in Oz as Dick has. And even Smithy didn't get himself put in CASA to try to fix that schemozzle. A huge pity that the CASA Jobsworths reversed his input after he left, to protect their empire.
Yes, he is outspoken, but to make any point in this environment, you have to be. Squeaky wheel, meet oil.
Yes, he can be very focused, to the exclusion of some other people's opinions, but show me a politician who won't talk over anybody who opens his mouth.
I have huge respect for Dick, and any chopper driver who operates near Sydney should also be grateful for his input, otherwise you would not have any chopper routes, or Victor 1 or any of the easier ways to move around the Sydney-centric airspace.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But then I have always been a dreamer thinking that it will finally turn out for the best. Based on past experience the people who should be united will retire to their corner grumbling that the others do not understand the problem.
For the uninitiated Part 135 will be the commercial operation of light aircraft. The rumours I am hearing is that the maintenance and operational requirements will be a lighter version of what is required for low-capacity RPT at present. That will drastically affect most maintenance shops and require commercial operators to get their pilots checked by a recognised C & T organisation. Think how much that will increase your operating costs.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 72
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not trying to shut down Dick. He has alluded to working on something and we get the occasional snippet which is supported by half and rejected by the other but until a complete proposal is presented, there is nothing to carry forward. The recent CASA proposal, although unacceptable, was at least in a conversation noise, easily read document. Until something similar is produced by the industry as a whole, we will remain disunited and easily overruled.
Then what exactly is the point you're trying to make fujii? Cause the title is "Who really cares" which seems to be saying "Go away" and asking if others agree with you to gain some support in telling him to go away.
You talk about him being ineffective and then create this thread which has no point at all or is designed to try and get people on side in trying to convince him to go away. So this thread is either dripping in Irony or Hypocrisy?
You talk about him being ineffective and then create this thread which has no point at all or is designed to try and get people on side in trying to convince him to go away. So this thread is either dripping in Irony or Hypocrisy?
Last edited by Ixixly; 25th Jan 2018 at 11:41.
I've disagreed with him considerably in the past but I don't think it should ever really be frowned upon to ask if there is a better way of doing things.
Admittedly frustrating at times but he does more than most of us for the right intent.
Admittedly frustrating at times but he does more than most of us for the right intent.
Ixixly you seem to be reading much more into fujii's original post than I interpret he intended, and in each of your subsequent posts you seem to be getting more worked up about it.
No-one is trying to stifle debate, and VH-MLE sums the situation up well.
Not much is wrong with the current airways system. If the current system was unsafe, the airlines in particular wouldn't be flying in it (remember that occurred in the 1998 Class G airspace demonstration), and industry associations would be thumping the table.
There is always room for improvements as time and technology move on, providing change proposals are subject to due process i.e. CBA, safety assessment, industry consultation and agreement, and education.
No-one is trying to stifle debate, and VH-MLE sums the situation up well.
Not much is wrong with the current airways system. If the current system was unsafe, the airlines in particular wouldn't be flying in it (remember that occurred in the 1998 Class G airspace demonstration), and industry associations would be thumping the table.
There is always room for improvements as time and technology move on, providing change proposals are subject to due process i.e. CBA, safety assessment, industry consultation and agreement, and education.
Last edited by CaptainMidnight; 26th Jan 2018 at 00:55.
Whether one agrees with Dick or not, whether his ideas are practical or not, at least he is challenging our often misguided Authority and parlous leadership given by a succession of Ministers, something few others, if any, are doing. And there is no doubt change in CASA must occur if private aviation, general aviation and flying training is to survive in Australia as anything other than the realm of the super rich.
The Australian: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...23ae95f4c54407
I note Carmody did not include completion of Regulatory reform amongst his achievements!
In another time in another life CASA refused to talk to me. The Director later told me it was because their position was indefensible. Perhaps Carmody and the Iron Ring are applying the same reasoning?
Whether Dick is right or not in Australia he has a right to meet with CASA, the same as any other Australian involved in Australian flying operations.
At least he is trying to do something which he hopes will save private, GA and flying training.
Which is more than only a handful of others are doing.
The Australian: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...23ae95f4c54407
Businessman and aviator Dick Smith has said Civil Aviation Safety Authority head Shane Carmody effectively told him to “get lost”, despite encouragement from then transport minister Darren Chester for Mr Smith to talk to the watchdog about airspace management.
The snub has put Mr Smith on the attack against Mr Carmody, describing him as “just a career bureaucrat” who though extremely highly paid had “done nothing” and was protecting an “iron ring” of senior CASA officials who, he says, resist change.
Mr Carmody would not reveal his remuneration, but Mr Smith noted it is in the band of up to $622,580 a year plus “performance bonuses”. The band potentially means Mr Carmody is better paid than the Prime Minister, on $527,854, and the High Court chief justice, on $584,511. But Mr Carmody has fired back, telling The Australian he has done a lot and achieved results, adding: “Mr Smith’s views are not always shared by the majority and often differ from others in the aviation community.”
Mr Smith, a former chairman of CASA and also its predecessor, the Civil Aviation Authority, has championed aviation reform and in 2015 was awarded a Companion of the Order of Australia for services to the industry.
He has advocated various changes that would transform airspace management towards the US model.
Mr Smith said he raised the possibility of talking to CASA about the issue with Mr Chester last year.
Mr Chester told The Australian: “Dick is an enthusiastic advocate for the aviation sector and I valued his input on the challenges facing some sections of the industry. “I would’ve certainly encouraged him to raise any specific concerns over airspace directly with CASA.”
But after Mr Smith offered to talk to senior CASA staff about airspace, Mr Carmody wrote to him late last year.
“I’d also like to thank you for your recent offer to consult for CASA in some capacity,” Mr Carmody wrote.
“Unfortunately, there is no readily identifiable opportunity to do this but I will most definitely keep your offer in mind,” he wrote.
Mr Smith characterised Mr Carmody’s letter as “to say, in effect, get lost”.
“All they had to do was get someone to lift the phone and talk to me, and they could say, ‘yes, we talked to Dick Smith’,” he said.
Mr Carmody declined to discuss the “iron ring”.
“Mr Smith is a well-known aviation enthusiast and I value his contributions” Mr Carmody said. “None of us is a singles source of expertise and knowledge within aviation.”
Mr Carmody listed a number of what he said were achievements on his watch over the past 15 months.
“Only late last year the International Civil Aviation Organisation completed an audit of Australia’s aviation safety system and the preliminary results from that audit have Australia with a top six world aviation safety ranking … a significant improvement,” Mr Carmody said.
The snub has put Mr Smith on the attack against Mr Carmody, describing him as “just a career bureaucrat” who though extremely highly paid had “done nothing” and was protecting an “iron ring” of senior CASA officials who, he says, resist change.
Mr Carmody would not reveal his remuneration, but Mr Smith noted it is in the band of up to $622,580 a year plus “performance bonuses”. The band potentially means Mr Carmody is better paid than the Prime Minister, on $527,854, and the High Court chief justice, on $584,511. But Mr Carmody has fired back, telling The Australian he has done a lot and achieved results, adding: “Mr Smith’s views are not always shared by the majority and often differ from others in the aviation community.”
Mr Smith, a former chairman of CASA and also its predecessor, the Civil Aviation Authority, has championed aviation reform and in 2015 was awarded a Companion of the Order of Australia for services to the industry.
He has advocated various changes that would transform airspace management towards the US model.
Mr Smith said he raised the possibility of talking to CASA about the issue with Mr Chester last year.
Mr Chester told The Australian: “Dick is an enthusiastic advocate for the aviation sector and I valued his input on the challenges facing some sections of the industry. “I would’ve certainly encouraged him to raise any specific concerns over airspace directly with CASA.”
But after Mr Smith offered to talk to senior CASA staff about airspace, Mr Carmody wrote to him late last year.
“I’d also like to thank you for your recent offer to consult for CASA in some capacity,” Mr Carmody wrote.
“Unfortunately, there is no readily identifiable opportunity to do this but I will most definitely keep your offer in mind,” he wrote.
Mr Smith characterised Mr Carmody’s letter as “to say, in effect, get lost”.
“All they had to do was get someone to lift the phone and talk to me, and they could say, ‘yes, we talked to Dick Smith’,” he said.
Mr Carmody declined to discuss the “iron ring”.
“Mr Smith is a well-known aviation enthusiast and I value his contributions” Mr Carmody said. “None of us is a singles source of expertise and knowledge within aviation.”
Mr Carmody listed a number of what he said were achievements on his watch over the past 15 months.
“Only late last year the International Civil Aviation Organisation completed an audit of Australia’s aviation safety system and the preliminary results from that audit have Australia with a top six world aviation safety ranking … a significant improvement,” Mr Carmody said.
In another time in another life CASA refused to talk to me. The Director later told me it was because their position was indefensible. Perhaps Carmody and the Iron Ring are applying the same reasoning?
Whether Dick is right or not in Australia he has a right to meet with CASA, the same as any other Australian involved in Australian flying operations.
At least he is trying to do something which he hopes will save private, GA and flying training.
Which is more than only a handful of others are doing.
Hmm. Tailwheel posts, deletes, then Torres posts exactly the same post. Alter ego there, TW? 
Ironically, given all that has changed, nothing has really changed (nor was there any great need...).
Originally Posted by Triadic
The only thing in aviation that is consistent is .... change! Get used to it!
I fly my private, single engine lighty and keep out of the way of others. I am happy with the current airways system and don’t see any need to change. I am flexible and not stuck in the 50s, 60s or any other decade Dick may choose nor am I obsessed or stuck in concrete but I just don’t see any need to change at this time for what I see as little gain.
Am I alone?
Am I alone?
I want to see a long term, viable, thriving and diverse aviation industry in Australia (by industry I mean covering everything from recreational operations to GA to RPT - it is all an industry - and GA is the essential nursery of the whole aviation industry).
I just don't see big changes to airspace as being much of a panacea for the ills in the industry.
I can think of lots of more pressing matters than airspace - but there is one change that I think would have huge flow on effects - that is a move to change the role of CASA.
We blame CASA for its actions but really - they are doing exactly what they have been tasked to do. It is the task that is wrong.
CASA's current mission is:
"To enhance and promote aviation safety through effective safety regulation and by encouraging industry to deliver high standards of safety"
"To foster and promote the long term safety, economic sustainability and community benefit of aviation in Australia through the provision of appropriate regulation, industry collaboration, technical assistance and education".
Without a change in the mission of CASA (both the symbolic words but also an associated cultural shift) the GA industry will continue to decline and fiddling at issues (like airspace) will not make much of a long term impact.
If their mission is, (as it is now), overwhelmingly to "continually make aviation safer" with no mention about maintaining the viability of the industry, they will pursue activities that will try to continually increase safety even at the cost of industry sustainability.
Don't blame the bureaucrats - that is the exact job we (through our representatives) have given them! The job needs to be changed!
Change this and there is a change to the ecosystem that GA (and aviation altogether) exists in and the other issues can be properly addressed.
Without this change nothing will really change.
my 2c