Adani Coal Airport
The Chinese government have already recognised their stronghold on power in the country will be jeopardised if the populace are subjected to polluted air for too much longer... they have cleaned up their act and canned coal power stations left right and centre.
The Indians will have no choice but to follow suit. You'd have to be crazy to invest "long" in coal. Unless you're making steel it will join asbestos and lead paint in the annals of industrial history.
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Unless you're making steel it will join asbestos and lead paint in the annals of industrial history.
Properties of Iron Made by the Process of Hydrogen Reduction
- Heihachi Kamura, M.S.b
- b Professor, Metallurgical Dept., Meiji College of Technology, Fukuoka‐Ken, Japan.
Abstract
It is well known that iron oxides and oxide iron ores are easily reducible by hydrogen at a comparatively low temperature. In the research herewith reported upon, the reduction of a wide variety of iron ores was carried out on laboratory scale starting with ore samples weighing 2 to 5 kg. The chemical and physical properties of the iron produced were carefully studied. The ingot iron obtained by melting the sponge was forged and analyzed. Tensile and impact tests are recorded. The resistivity was determined on test pieces made of forged materials. The products from various iron ores are compared. This research also confirmed previous observations that some of the phosphorus present as oxide in the iron sponge is removed by the slag during melting as shown by analyses of iron and slag. The ease of reducibility by hydrogen varied for different ores. The more compact the ore, the more difficult the reduction. Easily reducible ores such as those of Johole and Taihei were nearly completely converted to the metallic state at 900° to 950° C. in 3 to 4 hr. Magnetite sands were most difficult to reduce, requiring temperatures above 1,100° or 1,150° C. When melting the product in a crucible no difficulty was encountered when more than 95 per cent of the iron in the sponge iron was in the metallic state. No chemical reaction occurs which would bring about evolution of gas as is the case in the melting of ordinary iron and steel containing carbon. The melting progresses very quietly and a sound ingot free from blow holes is obtained. Ores containing phosphorus and sulfur below 0.03 and 0.07 per cent respectively, gave iron which had less than 0.02 per cent of these two elements combined. If we start with an ore low in P, S, Mn, etc., it is not difficult to keep the total amount of impurities in the melted iron under 0.1 per cent. The physical properties of hydrogen reduced melted iron depend upon the impurities present but when these are low the elastic limit and tensile strength are about the same as those for electrolytic iron, Armco iron or highest grade Swedish iron. On the other hand hydrogen reduced iron has a higher per cent elongation. The impact test values are much higher than those for high grade electrolytic iron or Armco iron. Phosphorus in the hydrogen reduced iron increases the elastic limit and the tensile strength and decreases the elongation. On the other hand the impact value is diminished appreciably by an increase in phosphorus content. The impact value varies not only with the amount of residual impurities in the iron after hydrogen reduction but with the kind of ore used. An exact explanation for the latter is lacking. The subject requires further study. The hardness of the iron by hydrogen containing but a small percentage of impurities is about 70 Brinell. The oxides of phosphorus are more difficult to reduce than the oxides of iron. At any constant temperature the percentage reduction of phosphorus is much lower than that of iron as is demonstrated in the case of the reduction of Taihei and Johole ores at temperatures ranging between 600° C. and 1,150° C. At 600° C., the percentage of reduction for iron is between 50 and 60 and for phosphorus is less than 30. At 900° C., the percentage for iron is 90 to 95; and for phosphorus 60 to 70.
I don't see the relevance of the attached study, I am aware of novel methods of steelmaking that don't involve using coal but it is generally accepted that metallurgical coal is required to make steel cheap enough to use as a building material. That's not really in the same ballpark as thermal coal where there are alternatives to generate electricity that are competitive on a cost basis.
Similar to the use of methane, a fossil fuel, not for combustion but as chemical feedstock for plastic or fertiliser production.
Similar to the use of methane, a fossil fuel, not for combustion but as chemical feedstock for plastic or fertiliser production.
Thread Starter
https://thewest.com.au/opinion/shane...-ng-b88662854z
The Chinese government have already recognised their stronghold on power in the country will be jeopardised if the populace are subjected to polluted air for too much longer... they have cleaned up their act and canned coal power stations left right and centre.
The Indians will have no choice but to follow suit. You'd have to be crazy to invest "long" in coal. Unless you're making steel it will join asbestos and lead paint in the annals of industrial history.
The Chinese government have already recognised their stronghold on power in the country will be jeopardised if the populace are subjected to polluted air for too much longer... they have cleaned up their act and canned coal power stations left right and centre.
The Indians will have no choice but to follow suit. You'd have to be crazy to invest "long" in coal. Unless you're making steel it will join asbestos and lead paint in the annals of industrial history.
Reading an actual Indian news report rather then global warming hysteria from an Oz media source and we find:
"...As Delhi and its neighbours spar over stubble burning, a Centre-run monitoring agency has identified a West Asian dust storm as the chief trigger behind the recent smog episode in the region.
On November 8, the contribution of the dust storm was 40 per cent, eclipsing the role of emissions from stubble burning, which stood at 25 per cent, the Pune-based System of Air Quality And Weather Forecasting And Research (SAFAR) said..."
Delhi smog: Dust storm in West Asia precipitated crisis, says SAFAR
Some thing else one would note if they have flown aircraft over Australian coal fired power stations is the only thing coming out the tower is steam. The new build coal fired power stations being built in India and China have the 'coal grit' removal systems built in.
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Some thing else one would note if they have flown aircraft over Australian coal fired power stations is the only thing coming out the tower is steam.
I feel that Victoria and South Australia are going to have some power supply problems with this hot summer, and might regret blowing up their coal generators. But no politician will ever admit it was a mistake. It will be the fault of Flat Earth Warming.
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Originally quoted by Chuboy
The relevance is that steel can be made without coal thereby eliminating CO2 emissions. Coal lovers often say banning coal would take us back to the dark ages because they think steel can't be made without it BUT THEY'RE WRONG
As for cost, as with all new technology, that would drop considerably as the method matured.
Binghi says
I have. Unlike coal fired power stations which belch CO2 365 days of the year, dust storms and bushfires only occur here and there and only last a day or two.
Binghi says
Actually Binghi you can't see steam. It's invisible. Perhaps you're looking at water vapor.
Something else you can't see is CO2. Tons of it. 2.8 tons for every ton of coal burnt.
If you believe something is harmless just because it's invisible I really hope you don't run your car in a closed garage.
I don't see the relevance of the attached study,
As for cost, as with all new technology, that would drop considerably as the method matured.
Binghi says
chuboy, you've obviously never flown in Australia when there's bush fires and/or dust storms about..
Binghi says
Some thing else one would note if they have flown aircraft over Australian coal fired power stations is the only thing coming out the tower is steam.
Something else you can't see is CO2. Tons of it. 2.8 tons for every ton of coal burnt.
If you believe something is harmless just because it's invisible I really hope you don't run your car in a closed garage.
Commercial/industrial quantities of hydrogen are made from fossil fuels, by the way.
In any case, if you stop people from making cheap steel using coal, they will just buy it from somewhere that can. If you ban steel made from coal entirely, you will collapse the economy and find yourself out of a job quick smart.
There will realistically always be a need for coal and fossil fuels. The important thing is to make changes where alternatives are viable. Every bit counts. Piston powered aircraft won't run without leaded petrol but that doesn't mean we need to use it in our cars. Just because we don't have electric airliners doesn't mean we shouldn't transition to electric cars. Just because we need coal to make steel for construction doesn't mean we need to use coal to make electricity.
I digress. Adani is not interested in metallurgical coal anyway. They want to burn the coal they dig up. Speaking of steel, I see today that the Chinese banks who have reportedly decided to fund the Adani project are going to insist the materials are made in China. Sorry much for Australian jobs.
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Commercial/industrial quantities of hydrogen are made from fossil fuels, by the way.
There will realistically always be a need for coal and fossil fuels.
Piston powered aircraft won't run without leaded petrol
Ask Jabba. He'll explain it to you. I don't have the time or energy to correct every misconception out there.
An Indian owned, managed and Chinese financed coal mine is a $%#$ing disaster for Australia.
Lip service will be paid to environmental precautions. There will be minimal Australian jobs and no financial revenue for Australia, especially when the costs of our subsidies are factored in.
Lip service will be paid to environmental precautions. There will be minimal Australian jobs and no financial revenue for Australia, especially when the costs of our subsidies are factored in.
Reduced iron is not steel , dear RR.
Your abstract divulges-
Even crap mild steel starts at HB120. Iron is starting to make a bit of a comeback in casting of high tech engine blocks but...it contains carbon...look up austenitic iron, or nodular iron. 5kg blocks of specially refracted iron doesn't make a process. This "breakthrough" takes us back to pre Bessemer converters and the dangers inherent in using low tensile strength iron in even low pressure environments.
Your abstract divulges-
The hardness of the iron by hydrogen containing but a small percentage of impurities is about 70 Brinell
Thread Starter
...Unlike coal fired power stations which belch CO2 365 days of the year, dust storms and bushfires only occur here and there and only last a day or two.
...Actually Binghi you can't see steam. It's invisible. Perhaps you're looking at water vapor.
Something else you can't see is CO2. Tons of it. 2.8 tons for every ton of coal burnt.
If you believe something is harmless just because it's invisible I really hope you don't run your car in a closed garage.
Best thing for an arid Australia. CO2 is the best plant food available:
"...Increased levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) have helped boost green foliage across the world’s arid regions over the past 30 years through a process called CO2 fertilisation, according to CSIRO research..."
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/...om-rising-co2/
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Binghi says:-
Not much good having lots of food if it's junk food.
Full article here:-
https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...dioxide-000511
Extract from full article below
“A higher concentration of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere would aid photosynthesis, which in turn contributes to increased plant growth,” the Texas Republican wrote. “This correlates to a greater volume of food production and better quality food.”But as the zooplankton experiment showed, greater volume and better quality might not go hand-in-hand. In fact, they might be inversely linked. As best scientists can tell, this is what happens: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads them to pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc.
Best thing for an arid Australia. CO2 is the best plant food available:
Full article here:-
https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...dioxide-000511
Extract from full article below
“A higher concentration of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere would aid photosynthesis, which in turn contributes to increased plant growth,” the Texas Republican wrote. “This correlates to a greater volume of food production and better quality food.”But as the zooplankton experiment showed, greater volume and better quality might not go hand-in-hand. In fact, they might be inversely linked. As best scientists can tell, this is what happens: Rising CO2 revs up photosynthesis, the process that helps plants transform sunlight to food. This makes plants grow, but it also leads them to pack in more carbohydrates like glucose at the expense of other nutrients that we depend on, like protein, iron and zinc.
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Oz said,
Actually Oz what I'm banging on about is keeping CO2 out of the atmosphere so it reverts to it's natural level found before the industrial revolution.
The hydrogen is to provide the energy to melt the ore. If carbon has to be added later for strength/hardness so be it. The quantity involved is negligible compared to the amount used in smelting.
RR, what you should have been banging on about as a replacement for coal is-
The hydrogen is to provide the energy to melt the ore. If carbon has to be added later for strength/hardness so be it. The quantity involved is negligible compared to the amount used in smelting.
Rutan, an ounce of gold weighs more than an ounce of feathers.
Gold is weighed in Troy weight, whereas all else is weighed in Avoirdupois. Tons / tonnes, though, are another matter...
Gold is weighed in Troy weight, whereas all else is weighed in Avoirdupois. Tons / tonnes, though, are another matter...